Venezuela - US Conflict: News, Updates

[gambit]

The abudction (key goal of the whole op) only happened because no one in their wildest imaginations could have expected something that bizarre to be carried out.

Manuel Noriega.

So technological prowess or military might really didn't mattered much in this op. The key thing which mattered was doing something seriously unexpected (element of surprise in military terms).

Technology enabled US to do these unexpected things.

F-22s had nothing to shoot down. They had virtually no airforce to challenge. You could have used F-16 block 15s in this mission and still got Maduro.

As an Air Force guy, my opinion is that it would be foolish to assume that we would encounter no air opposition. Why do you think the EA-18s were involved? We scrambled their radars and communication. We had air superiority 'just in case' anyone foolish to peek his head. Our helos flew at 100 ft altitude to avoid any radar detection. The mission success was precisely because we had assets to cover contingencies that discourage others. But in the end, I want everyone to think of US the way you just did because it will make possible even more outrageous things we can do.

So my point was the whole parameter of "success" in this mission was "abduction" of head of state and only key factor to enable this abduction was that no one was expecting this and so no one prepared against such a move. You would have failed in this mission with all those raptors and growlers, had Maduro could think of all possibilities regardless of morality.

Catching an opponent unprepared is what Sun-Tzu and Clauswitz advocate.

Here is what I repeated often on this forum since I was invited here back in '09, and I learned this from a chief when I was active duty.

In a fight, you win not by fighting under your opponent's rules but by forcing him to fight under yours. And cheating is allowed.

A 'rule' is any advantage you have over him, or he has over you. If you have more powerful engines, keep the fight fast. If you can outturn him, keep the fight maneuverable. If you have a better radar, keep the fight at a distance. If you, but not him, can see in the dark, then attack at night. And the list goes on.

Severing communication and blind radars when he least expected are what every military wish they could do to their potential opponents. So what is the problem?

Historically, conquering armies lived off the land, but with Desert Shield and Desert Storm, the US became the only military that transport everything it needed transhemispherically. No one expected that as they watched in awe at Desert Shield buildup. Then with Desert Storm, no one expected any military to execute multiple missions with near instantaneous effects to overwhelm Iraqi defense at every level. What is the problem with that?

War is not a contest but survival. Other than dishonorable tactics, to fight in a war is to fight unfair. We can separate out the 'abduction' of Maduro under moral and legal umbrellas, but it is absurd to say that we cover every aspect of Venezuelan defense as somehow 'unfair' because they were caught off guard.

 

[Watandar]

The Orange Bastard part I can agree with, although I prefer the Great Orange Shitstain.

But the orderly transition of power to the Vice President shows that the Venezuelan system was far stronger than merely one man. Removing Maduro has not destroyed the system, and hence that shows its strength.

We need separate thread but seems the US has decided on a new approach of coercion, that involves using air power, special forces, economic and tech blockades and propaganda to compel a country to behave a certain way. This is a different from past hostile approaches of coup to install puppets or outright invasion and occupation. I think this incorporates the lessons from the failed wars in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and the burden of supporting puppet regimes.

So if Mr Trump now decides to go after Cuba or Iran, I think you will see same script.

 

[gambit]

And old man don't forget Russia. Russian FM recently just stated that Russia will come to China's aid at any cost as agreed in their treaty if war breaks out between China and Japan/US over Taiwan. The same goes to China, if Russia is invaded by US/NATO, China will come to its aid. Most of your so called allies are pussies.

I think that after Ukraine, China pretty much forget Russia. The context of the word here is 'discard' or 'disregard' as significant or important to an issue.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[LeGenD]

Maduro and his wife were found in an underground compound of Fuerte Tiuna. He had different hideouts that he alternated between but CIA was able to monitor his movements. Fuerte Tiuna is Venezuela's largest military complex, housing defence ministries, equipment and underground tunnels and bunkers.

 

[ghazi52]

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[gambit]

Maduro and his wife were found in an underground compound of Fuerte Tiuna. He had different hideouts that he alternated between but CIA was able to monitor his movements. Fuerte Tiuna is Venezuela's largest military complex, housing defence ministries, equipment and underground tunnels and bunkers.

Keywords search 'maduro huawei phone'

 

[Ibbi32]

China have no allies, even if we stretch the definition and context of 'ally'.

If the UK is attacked, the US will respond even if there is no legal contract between the two countries, and God help anyone standing in the way. China have so such ally, either to go to their aid or they come to China's aid. China is alone. And please, do not bring up Pakistan. How many Pakistanis here willing to give up their lives for China?

You are correct Pakistan would never be fully committed to supporting china against other enemies but if china was attacked by india for example i dont see Pakistani strategists seeing it as the perfect time and justification to carry out strikes in India. China and Pakistan are united by their enemy in India. China doesn’t care beyond some diplomatic support about our fights with iran and Afghanistan likewise we don’t really care about theit fights with taiwan or japan. We are allies of convenience.

Also you bring up the us would go to war anywhere for uk but thats clearly not true. Us had a strict anti colonial policy with Britain throughout cold war and didnt want to end up stuck in their legacy conflicts so there was already an agreement that they wont fight to protect British overseas territories for example in faklands war beyond some muted diplomatic and arms support us did not get involved

 

[Watandar]

Keywords search 'maduro huawei phone'

Maduro and his Cuban guards did not carry any phone for this very purpose. The CIA had been observing him since August and had established a pattern of life. They also had agents within the Venezuelan govt.

Months in planning, over in two and a half hours: how the US snatched Maduro

The operation to capture the Venezuelan president and his wife involved at least 150 aircraft, months of surveillance – and reportedly a spy in the government

www.theguardian.com

 

[gambit]

Maduro and his Cuban guards did not carry any phone for this very purpose. The CIA had been observing him since August and had established a pattern of life. They also had agents within the Venezuelan govt.

Months in planning, over in two and a half hours: how the US snatched Maduro

The operation to capture the Venezuelan president and his wife involved at least 150 aircraft, months of surveillance – and reportedly a spy in the government

www.theguardian.com

I do not know if the CIA can 'hack' Maduro's Huawei brand phone or not. But I grew up with rotary dial phones with looooooooooonnnng cords so at this point in technology, I would NOT discard that possibility. Would the US confirm this rumor? Assume yes, it would be Trump's big mouth to reveal that because we would want to keep that really really secret.

 

[Eşbah]

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[LeGenD]

Maduro and his Cuban guards did not carry any phone for this very purpose. The CIA had been observing him since August and had established a pattern of life. They also had agents within the Venezuelan govt.

Months in planning, over in two and a half hours: how the US snatched Maduro

The operation to capture the Venezuelan president and his wife involved at least 150 aircraft, months of surveillance – and reportedly a spy in the government

www.theguardian.com

Hmm. Thanks for the share. Maduro was not an idiot as some members claimed in this thread. He understood how to keep a low profile. However, the CIA infiltrated different Venezuelan institutions and conducted a complex surveillance operation to track his movements across the country well in advance.

The CIA have also helped Ukraine conduct some of the most daring attacks inside Russia. The most recent incident took place near Putin's residence. Perhaps a message was sent to him. Najam Setti also mentioned this in a recent talk show.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

Folks:

Once again, the topic is Venezuela-US. Not Russia-Ukraine. Not "China is a paper tiger". Or any other unrelated topic.

The other mods and admins have been generous in their assistance at removing OT posts. Some timeouts may soon compliment those efforts.

 

[VCheng]

Maduro was not an idiot as some members claimed in this thread. He understood how to keep a low profile.

Is this what you call a "low profile"?

Maduro did say in a speech to "come and get me" in August. In fact, he told Trump in that speech where he would be: "I will wait for him here in Miraflores. Don’t be late, coward."

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

The US makes it look easy, bro. No other country in the region could exploit and influence Venezuela like that. India remains strong and capable. The war could turn ugly when Brahmos missiles starting reaching Pak military bases but Trump intervened and helped stop the war. Pakistani leadership have openly admitted it.

When it comes to pin-point, precision strikes, no one does it better.