Al - Haider VT-4 MBT - The Premier PA Ground Asset [Developments]

[Toxic]

Poor reliability is more concerning than low barrel life

Tbf this is the first instance of the VT-4 breaking down during combat.

 

[MirageV3ff]

Tbf this is the first instance of the VT-4 breaking down during combat.

There was a video of a Nigerian VT-4 that also suffered reliability issues. Now not saying that this may be a common theme and it could be general lack of maintenance but it is worrisome.

 

[iron shrapnel]

Tbf this is the first instance of the VT-4 breaking down during combat.

Tbf this isn't the worst weather the VT-4 could face even in Thailand... The humidity is low these days and all things considered it is prime fighting period... The ground isn't giving way as it hasn't rained for a while in those areas... Overall the conditions are suitable for armor operations and if you guys have been observing the conflict or not, the Thai have deployed armor well.. from bulldogs to oplots... M48s to Fv 101s... One could argue that the VT4 has had more spotlight due to being their " premier " ground asset as well.. higher expectations and higher than usual failures (due to abuse ? ) have brought their reputation down...
Some thai twitter handles claim that the Thai are pushing Oplots and M48s as they have performed more reliably. While the VT-4 has it's advantages the Thai are forced to relieve them from forward service....
NORINCO has a lot of explaining to do and consequently re-workings as well... Noteworthy, that the Thai also use VN-1 8x8 & Type 85 APCs from China as well which haven't shown any problems in their service upto now.

 

[iron shrapnel]

Tbf this isn't the worst weather the VT-4 could face even in Thailand... The humidity is low these days and all things considered it is prime fighting period... The ground isn't giving way as it hasn't rained for a while in those areas... Overall the conditions are suitable for armor operations and if you guys have been observing the conflict or not, the Thai have deployed armor well.. from bulldogs to oplots... M48s to Fv 101s... One could argue that the VT4 has had more spotlight due to being their " premier " ground asset as well.. higher expectations and higher than usual failures (due to abuse ? ) have brought their reputation down...
Some thai twitter handles claim that the Thai are pushing Oplots and M48s as they have performed more reliably. While the VT-4 has it's advantages the Thai are forced to relieve them from forward service....
NORINCO has a lot of explaining to do and consequently re-workings as well... Noteworthy, that the Thai also use VN-1 8x8 & Type 85 APCs from China as well which haven't shown any problems in their service upto now.

I guess the best P.A could do is run some insane tests on VT-4 again untill failure...
Secondarily abandoning the T-80s wouldn't be a wise option.. getting them upgraded would be better... I wonder if we could build a T-80 hull from scratch considering we already rebuild them....
Going to Ukraine in search of some ToTs won't be a bad option as well especially for propulsion system...
HIT not researching on engines and transmissions for civilian and military purposes will always be my 3 pm migraine....

 

[iron shrapnel]

jokes aside, haider has a high level of indigenous content, including the gun barrel. Im not worried

IDK why when you wrote " indigenous content " this came to mind...

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[Toxic]

I guess the best P.A could do is run some insane tests on VT-4 again untill failure...
Secondarily abandoning the T-80s wouldn't be a wise option.. getting them upgraded would be better... I wonder if we could build a T-80 hull from scratch considering we already rebuild them....
Going to Ukraine in search of some ToTs won't be a bad option as well especially for propulsion system...
HIT not researching on engines and transmissions for civilian and military purposes will always be my 3 pm migraine....

If the tanks had serious reliability issues I would Imagine they would come up during the tests before they were purchased, I think we might have to wait for the Thai post war report on the VT-4s performance before we make conclusions.

 

[hussain0216]

IDK why when you wrote " indigenous content " this came to mind...

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All machinery can break down under heavy duress

Why the worry?

 

[iron shrapnel]

If the tanks had serious reliability issues I would Imagine they would come up during the tests before they were purchased, I think we might have to wait for the Thai post war report on the VT-4s performance before we make conclusions.

Maybe you are right...
The Thai VT-4s are one of the first ones to enter service and were "base " models as some claim.. idk what that means.. so they have seen use in exercises and what not...

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These two compare how they have aged and also show the level of basic maintenance being carried out by Thai crews..

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Also to note is that VT-4s are one of the most used tanks in this conflict... One could argue that they pushed it to its limits because they are the easiest to replace and easiest to source parts for...

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Another one

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In one scenario the OG poster said that the ERA got hit and maybe that caused the barrel to take damage.

 

[iron shrapnel]

If the tanks had serious reliability issues I would Imagine they would come up during the tests before they were purchased, I think we might have to wait for the Thai post war report on the VT-4s performance before we make conclusions.

The thing is what option did we realistically have except the VT-4 ? We have the same reason to choose the VT-4 as the Thai Army...

 

[iron shrapnel]

All machinery can break down under heavy duress

Why the worry?

You're right but thing is at what point and how often.. If its recurring too often then it's a liability than an asset....
(Edit) :- I'm not worried brother.. I just report because I know how deep some people sleep in my country... Maybe someone higher up would see it and look into it... Many times internal reports are shoved in drawers so no one takes the blame and sometimes (more than i would like times) this costs lives... So, a silver hair for a life ? Why not...

 

[Oscar]

The thing is what option did we realistically have except the VT-4 ? We have the same reason to choose the VT-4 as the Thai Army...

There were options - and trialed.
Each had their positives and negatives - VT-4s offered the most immediate independent control to PA. VT-4 was not to be the end all AFAIK - @Panzerkiel could advice. The UDs still need a future. Not all eggs are going into one basket.

 

[rafale]

I guess the best P.A could do is run some insane tests on VT-4 again untill failure...
Secondarily abandoning the T-80s wouldn't be a wise option.. getting them upgraded would be better... I wonder if we could build a T-80 hull from scratch considering we already rebuild them....
Going to Ukraine in search of some ToTs won't be a bad option as well especially for propulsion system...
HIT not researching on engines and transmissions for civilian and military purposes will always be my 3 pm migraine....

Knowing PA Armor guys, they would have already done a battery of tests....no way they are accepting a product just like that.......entirely possible the Thai versions are different and PA ones are different.

Just see what they did with Z-10 attack choppers......customize and upgrade as per Pakistan specific requirements. Same as how PAF will gruelingly evaluate every parameter of a new system or fighter.

 

[Samurai]

I guess the best P.A could do is run some insane tests on VT-4 again untill failure...
Secondarily abandoning the T-80s wouldn't be a wise option.. getting them upgraded would be better... I wonder if we could build a T-80 hull from scratch considering we already rebuild them....
Going to Ukraine in search of some ToTs won't be a bad option as well especially for propulsion system...
HIT not researching on engines and transmissions for civilian and military purposes will always be my 3 pm migraine....

"Going to Ukraine in search of some ToTs won't be a bad option as well especially for propulsion system"

I don't think that's likely given the current scenario where Putin will not like it. Although, Russia has deep defence industrial relations with India but I don't think Pakistan will make any such deal with Ukraine in the near future to complicate its own relations with Russia.

 

[LeGenD]

There are reports of both Thailand and Nigeria not finding VT-4 reliable due to component failures.

 

[Psyko70]

Hello,

Haider is not vt4. Nothing serious, we have been producing them in HIT now with TOT. However, it is expected and already discussed Chinese export tanks are not good that is why HIT makes modifications to them before putting them in service. if VT4 barrel has issues then vt1 or Al Khalid could have had similar issues but I dont think that is true.

It is still better tank then any other option. With Chinese products we have full access or enough access to make alterations to our quality standard.