Venezuela - US Conflict: News, Updates

[RocketLaw]

Not much of a democracy under Biden either and he wasn’t very mentally stable to say the least

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[Davey Crockett]

 

[gambit]

You missed the crux of my post.

No, I did not. You brought on nothing new. I have seen similar comments in tone, if not in precise words, from others who grasped at any straw of interpretation to downplay anything the US military does.

...that's how ofcourse it needs to be marketed...

Part of deterrence is perception, and if marketing helps...

He certainly never imagined that head of states can be abducted.

Manuel Noriega.

Factors which enabled Success of US Op:

1- Extremely Malicious & dishonorable deceit so no one is prepared for that kind of thing - (Major factor)
2- Technology & military might - minor factor (EW, AWACS, Raptors, Growlers and Whole lot of stuff...)

Tough sh!7 if on the receiving end. Deceit is part of war, whether it is an actual declared war or not. If we want something done and if the military is involved, we WILL use deceit if needed. Sorry, but crying about it will do nothing. By the way, deceit is not a dishonorable tactic.

If you can equate this with being unfair in battlefield, then by all means we can justify what al-qaeda did in 9/11. They were unfair, they did something unexpected which no one could imagined can happen and so US wasn't prepared for that sort of thing. US did exactly the same thing. We are talking about tactics here, so cannot dismiss the morality angle at all from this Op as this was the only major tactic that was employed by the US.

Sept 11, 2001 was dishonorable. Unfair, yes. But primarily dishonorable if YOU want to bring in the morality angle.

Now, I will give that the Pentagon is a legitimate target, maybe even include the WH and the Congress, but the WTC towers were dishonorable.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Not much of a democracy under Biden either and he wasn’t very mentally stable to say the least

um...contrary to the video...the lights did not go out

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[Cipher212]

um...contrary to the video...the lights did not go out

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Maybe they only went out around the presidential palace. That would be much easier to achieve.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Maybe they only went out around the presidential palace. That would be much easier to achieve.

He wasn't in a palace. He was in a secret "safe house".

 

[Ag1123]

Firstly, you need to clarify what a communist country is, what a socialist country is, and what a capitalist country is.

Communist countries distribute goods according to the needs of the people. Socialist countries distribute goods based on labor contributions. Capitalist countries allocate goods based on capital operations.

China is a socialist country, not the capitalist country you think it is. The economic mainstay of China is state-owned enterprises, with 45% of enterprises in China being state-owned enterprises. 55% of China's wealth belongs to the state or collectives, and this wealth is returned to all citizens through cheap and excellent infrastructure, medical services, education services, social security, welfare, and so on, making their living costs very low. That's why there are no homeless people in China, and even the lowest class can live a decent life.

Secondly, Chinese people do not recognize the Soviet Union and other countries as communist countries.

The Soviet Union was an imperialist country disguised as communism.

North Korea is a feudal kingdom disguised as communism.

Vietnam and Laos are socialist countries that copy the Chinese system.

There has never been a true communist country in this world, and China is still exploring the correct path to achieving a communist country.

Classifying the Soviet Union and North Korea as communist countries is a smear of communism by countries such as the United States.

Ultimately, only China has the right to define what a communist country is. Capitalist countries such as the United States and imperialist countries such as the Soviet Union are not qualified to define communist countries.

The smartest thing the Chinese leaders did was allowing free markets and privatization, they understood the usefulness of economic calculation through profit and loss, instead of blindly producing goods not knowing if it was wasting resources or using them towards useful ends.

You said: “Communist countries distribute goods according to the needs of the people. Socialist countries distribute goods based on labor contributions. Capitalist countries allocate goods based on capital operations.”

My question to you is, how do you have distribution without production? All Socialist (Communist) argue from the standpoint that production is a given, but you need resources, factors of production (labor, tools, material) and proper allocation for production to succeed before you get to distribution, so how does a communist or socialist nation, which controls the means of production, do that without economic calculation through profit and loss?

Don’t worry I won’t press you further, as every leader and deep state across the world has understood it can’t and Capitalism (free markets) are necessary.

China would benefit even more if it got rid of Communism for good, as free market Capitalism is what allows a nation to stand on its feet, not starvation (what Communism offers).

Now you asked: “Firstly, you need to clarify what a communist country is, what a socialist country is, and what a capitalist country is.” A communist country is a stateless, moneyless, and classless society, something that exists in fantasy. A socialist country is a nation that control the means of production and socializes it. And A capitalist country is is the social system of private ownership of the means of production, in which economic calculation is possible through free market prices formed by voluntary exchange.

China is mostly Capitalism (free market) then it is Socialism, but not communism. If it was completely Socialism or even attempted communism, there would be mass starvations everywhere. Something the Chinese leaders have understood today. China is interventionism in short, but it is Capitalism which is sustaining, however full on Capitalism would make it more efficient, but that would be a threat to the government.

There will never be true communism, unless you freeze time and get rid of uncertainty. Every communist nation that ever was was the real deal, that was the result of it in practice.

Now I would argue that there has never been a true Capitalist nation, a true Captialist nation is far more likely to happen in practice than a true Communist nation which can happen only in fantasy.

Suggest the both of you compare measurements in a separate thread. Perhaps in Member's Corner. But not here.

Understood, that was my last reply. I need to challenge Socialist and communist everywhere, to ensure that destructive ideology never comes back, I know it’s less likely in the present era, but we need to continually remain and systematically destroy it.

 

[VCheng]

If Maduro is removed and:

• China protests but adapts, it confirms Beijing’s preference for stability and continuity over confrontation.
• Russia blusters but cannot respond materially, it exposes the limits of Russian reach in the Western Hemisphere.

Either outcome weakens patron credibility. And once credibility weakens, alignment calculations across the region change.

Other states notice. Quietly. Perhaps permanently.

The key here is what have Russia and China been promised in return, or expect in return, and whether it would drive them closer in the region or not.

As the article concludes, what comes next is not yet determined. I think how Venezuela's current setup does will be crucial in that determination. The fact that Machado is out shows how little say EU has in the entire chapter, given that she was being groomed for that role for a long time.

 

[sphinxpasha]

The U.S. flew F-35s and Growlers right over Caracas. The Chinese supplied anti-stealth JY-27 ‘Wide Mat’ and 'integrated' network didn't just fail; it totally collapsed. The radars were 'blind' and the missile batteries never even got a target lock. The The EA-18G Growler electronic warfare paralysed Caracas’s Chinese-made command hubs.

Maduro was caught with his pants down, blindfolded and exported out of Venezuela!

 

[VCheng]

The U.S. flew F-35s and Growlers right over Caracas. The Chinese supplied anti-stealth JY-27 ‘Wide Mat’ and 'integrated' network didn't just fail; it totally collapsed. The radars were 'blind' and the missile batteries never even got a target lock. The The EA-18G Growler electronic warfare paralysed Caracas’s Chinese-made command hubs.

Maduro was caught with his pants down, blindfolded and exported out of Venezuela!

Obviously, that was an inside job. USA is clearly not that competent. Clearly.

 

[That_Guy]

lol Capitalism had nothing to do with Free Market (and "free market" is free at all, I mean, look at how many Government Regulations and policies contribute toward the US Stockmarket, for example...)

Free Market is of simpliest term, price dictated solely by supply and demand without government interference, this is not a factor to Capitalists, because most capitalist countries, including the US, use trade barriers and artificial pricing to eliminate competition or further political agenda

Anyway, capitalism in the most basic term is production and goods are owned by individuals via a company, as opposed to Socialism, where the country owns the production and products via SOEs, individuals would want to grow their business and up their production instead of working for someone else because it belongs to them, where the own have turn over and the employee have dividents. Instead of the profits going into a country and being evenly distributed via social programs (socialism) or set in a communal background where everything is shared (communism)

There are good and bad for each system. The strongest con for Capitalism is "Greed" which is the building block for capitalism, but it also means you have a wealth gap and a hostile market.

No offense, but i never said they were the same. Its why I mentioned them separately.

I dont like pure capitalism, nor the free market.

 

[Ag1123]

Like I said, you didn't make arguments. You presented opinions as facts. You cant argue against someone who thinks 2+2=5.

And no, you clearly do not have a "degree in economics".

If you did, you wouldn't make such clearly stupid arguments, because actual economists realize that pure capitalism and pure communism can both cause problems. And the most effective solution is a middle ground, where you have a middle ground of private ownership, but have social welfare and safety nets.

You don't even know what socialism is, and the fact that it does allow some regulated private ownership of land and property.

This is why I don't take you seriously.

You are just like other "anti-socialists" who thinks that socialism is the same a communism.

Well friend you gave me a good laugh, not everyday that happens.

The Chinese friend attempted something, but like all socialist, they fail because socialism as an idea is flawed.

We will let future readers decide who they will take seriously and who they won’t.

 

[sphinxpasha]

Obviously, that was an inside job. USA is clearly not that competent. Clearly.

Let's have a separate discussion on fragility of CETC defense architecture and how US EA-18G EW (SEAD/DEAD) stacks up!

 

[PakFactor]

View attachment 170403

Chapter 1: OBL Raid

The Americans came in the dead of night, rushing out of their stealth helicopters, guns blazing, and snatched the world's foremost terrorist to later discard him in the ocean per Islamic ritual.

Footnote:
Do not stress, it can happen to you; consider it Allah's will.

 

[PakFactor]

AQ khan made sure that never happens

...of course, besides the bomb, we also have spirits of saints, who will grab bombs and throw them into rivers just as it happened in 1948 and 1965; we can ignore 1971, they were doing Umrah at the time. Though it does have me thinking about why we've never won any of the wars, with holy spirits on our side, and has us recoiling back to the position we were in before hostilities began.