Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[shapurzolaktaf]

Just remember it is only to overseas US assets in bases in the Middle East. While for Iran it would be their front door and backyard.

Say what you want to make yourself feel better.

US losing trillions on war (plus the interest paid over their increased debt). According to Trumpedo they lost 7 trillions USD in forever wars in middle east. He said the only thing there is sand and death. But jews have occupied Trumpedos daughter and have grabbed his b*lls through the jew-epstein files. US citizens who are slaves of jews can't do anything about their foreign and domestic policy and the increasing debt problem.

 

[ToddE]

A few billion here and there is nothing to the Americans. The strategic gains of getting control over resources--like just happening in Venezuela and being planned for Iran and Greenland--are long term big bucks.
It is the loss of the American servicemen which is the biggest concern in American decision making due to American politics.

Except that not a single drop of Venezuelan oil has reached Texan refineries. Meanwhile since Maduro got kidnapped, dozens of tankers have reached China without hurdle, 1 semi filled Tanker of Russia was hijacked but is this how Trump plans to run refineries in Texas lol by kidnapping rando tankers here and there? In this whole Maduro theatrics Trump got played for aesthetics by Putin-Xi in Venezuela through Cabello the chief warlord of Venezuela. They all want Trump to be frustrated enough to put boots on ground and half a million strong communist guerillas of Cabello turn them into BBQ. IRI is a different ball game.

 

[mangekyo]

^ you expect stability after IRGC siphoned 112 Billion USD from Oil revenues in 2025 to their own offshore companies to cause artificial deficit in central bank ? Is there any other explanation how come a country that earned 112 Billion USD worth Yuan/RMB from exports revenues is facing inflation, after massive trade gains. Larijani faction, reformists, IRGC are all in it. Ayatollahs got trapped in this plan, protests are conspiracy for internal regime change which is why Trump-Jews saw through it and left. War with Israel+US would have been be the last stage of this IRGC hatched plan to kick Mullahs out.

Corruption, reparation of war damage from the 12 day war, military hardware purchases, subsidies etc.

 

[Meengla]

Except that not a single drop of Venezuelan oil has reached Texan refineries. Meanwhile since Maduro got kidnapped, dozens of tankers have reached China without hurdle, 1 semi filler Tanker of Russia was hijacked but is this how Trump plan to run refinaries in Texas lol by kidnapping rando tankers here and there? Trump got played for aesthetics by Putin-Xi in Venezuela through Cabello the chief warlord of Venezuela. They all want Trump to be frustrated enough to put boots on ground and communist guerillas of Cabello turn them into BBQ. IRI is a different ball game.

It would be offtopic to discuss the long term gains for the US from Venezuela and Greenland adventures but I differ with you--there are going to be major resource gains for America as will be if/when Iran is neutralized.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Again the mentality of the armchair warriors here is going the absolute destruction route.

Syria never fired a single bullet towards Israel, but it still got its entire infrastructure as a country, its entire military, and state institutions bombed to absolute destruction.

That is the ruleset that America, and Israel play by. ie there are no rules. When you are dealing with such people, you have to do deal with them on equal terms and impose a cost.

For Iran, to take out an aircraft carrier or two, will be something because regardless of what Iran does, be it a small response or all out, the cost to Iran will be identical. So, if you are going to go down, you might as well go down swinging.

 

[HAIDER]

The question is, what is next? Israel won't give up, and Iran's security model has more holes in it then Swiss Cheese it seems. The level of penetration is shocking to say the least.

I agree, thats is good sign, there govt know the loop holes ....and no tight security in any Muslim countries.

 

[mangekyo]

Syria never fired a single bullet towards Israel, but it still got its entire infrastructure as a country, its entire military, and state institutions bombed to absolute destruction.

That is the ruleset that America, and Israel play by. ie there are no rules. When you are dealing with such people, you have to do deal with them on equal terms and impose a cost.

For Iran, to take out an aircraft carrier or two, will be something because regardless of what Iran does, be it a small response or all out, the cost to Iran will be identical. So, if you are going to go down, you might as well go down swinging.

Excactly. If the issue was the nuclear program or BM program, Trump wouldnt have left it. The biggest opposer to JCPOA was inf fact Netanyahu. They dont care about BMs, they dont care about the nuclear program. They are setting up the ME for greater israel and Iran is the only country standing in their way.

 

[Master Chief]

So what’s actually the better form of deterrence here?

1. Take the hits and respond with small symbolic strikes, hoping the other side loses interest and moves on.

2. Hit back as hard as possible to force a stalemate, betting that once the costs rise, Trump rethinks and pulls back.

Iran already tried giving the U.S. an off-ramp with the response in Qatar. That clearly didn’t work, since they’re back again.

There’s also a real use-it-or-lose-it problem here.

Once the missile sites are destroyed and more chaos is set in motion, there’s really no backing down at all. Trump doesn’t respect weakness. Every time Iran tried to give him an off-ramp, he came back and hit harder.

Pretending Trump is going to back down because Iran sets a few refineries on fire is wishful thinking. A couple of damaged refineries and a spike in oil prices is a price Israel will make the West pay if the outcome is eliminating Iran.

Honestly, I don’t really see a solution here. It feels like all paths lead to the same place. At this point, it just looks like the end.

Option 1 may be better. It's only my personal speculation.

Iran may need to make some concessions e.g. give up on foreign nation building aspirations - a concession which may actually be in the best interests of Iranians anyway.

In this time period of highly targeted and vocal Iranian animosity towards the colonial entity 1000 odd miles to its west, Iran has put its neck on the line for the failures of Arabs and, one may argue, muslim nations in general (though I wouldn't include Pakistan here for reasons best saved for another thread). That era seems to be drawing to a close.

My opinion is that the mantle of responsibility must shift primarily to the Sunni Arab nations that exist around Palestine to sort their future out, militarily or otherwise.

Iran has shown us that Israel is terrified of them, hence the urgency to destroy Iran's capabilities. It is an example of effective hypersonic missile and drone based warfare that other nations should learn from.

Hitherto, only the Russians (ordering Shaheds by the shed load) and USA (reverse engineering Shaheds to produce the LUCAS) have taken advantage of this.

Many nations now need to emerge from their systemic comatose state of playing around in millionaire mansions and actually start to solve their neighbourhood problems with determination and in acceptance of the risks incurred.

I genuinely hope and pray that Iran emerges standing strong on its own two feet following the coming trials. It would be a bonus if this regime also finally learns that Pakistan bears no threat to it and, on the contrary, an upstart nation to our east harbours ill will to both of us.

 

[ToddE]

Corruption, reparation of war damage from the 12 day war, military hardware purchases, subsidies etc.

Find the trade deficit of IRI last year and you will be surprised, they earned much more than they spent. 112 Billion USD worth oil revenues were gained at 5.5 MPBD as per world bank in last 12 months. Where is the gained money ? Central bank has not got it yet 1000 tanker fleet of IRGC is still running rampant.

.... They are sucking IRI mullah goverment dry, they caused the currency fall just like they did before during Rohani-Zarif era. IRGC apparently hates Ayatollahs now.

It would be offtopic to discuss the long term gains for the US from Venezuela and Greenland adventures but I differ with you--there are going to be major resource gains for America as will be if/when Iran is neutralized.

Countries do not get neutralized, thats childish doom gamer thinking or wishful if you dislike the country in case like how some posters do here, esp the armed to teeth, battle hardened military regimes like IRI, DPRK, post soviet Russia types. Dont fall for MSM. Had it been the case of debt grip over IRI like others in region, US would have exerted financial influence but its just not possible because IRI has 1% foriegn debt (Turkey has 50% western debt grip over GDP as scale). Khamenei may go through internal rivalry but nothing beyond that is numerically possible. I wrote a long post on this pages ago. Military strength, threat to Israel, Chinese reliance on Iranian oil based Yuan market ... these factors are too big to ignore. Only thing that can happen is cosmetic exchange like before.

As for venezuela, let their oil reach Texas refineries first then we will discuss this, so far not a single drop has despite Maduro strunt ... China and Russia are meanwhile getting their tankers on time.

 

[Meengla]

Countries do not get neutralized, thats childish doom gamer thinking or wishful if you dislike the country in case like how some posters do here, esp the armed to teeth, battle hardened military regimes like IRI, DPRK, post soviet Russia types. Dont fall for MSM. Had it been the case of debt grip over IRI like others in region, US would have exerted financial influence but its just not possible because IRI has 1% foriegn debt (Turkey has 50% western debt grip over GDP as scale).

I hope your rather positive view of Iran's future is true. There is hardly any Pakistani here or in Pakistan's intelligentsia who want Iran and Iranians to suffer. But we have seen one of the most prosperous African countries (Libya) to collapse, we have seen the so-called '4th largest Army in the World' (Iraq) to collapse, and we have seen the once powerful Al-Assad dynasty to collapse. In all those countries, disastrous consequences.
You know your country better than me but I don't rule out similar fate for Iran, as much Pakistanis would hate that fate.

 

[StrategicBear]

Spiritual Circles believe in Mass Prayers and Mass Meditations to Manifest Things. Islam works the same too under the same principle because ALLAH rules all. Therefore, SOLAT HAJAT BY 2 BILLION MUSLIMS PRAYING IRAN TO ROUT US MILITARY?

 

[ToddE]

I hope your rather positive view of Iran's future is true. There is hardly any Pakistani here or in Pakistan's intelligentsia who want Iran and Iranians to suffer.

Makes zero difference what anyone posts here or on internet in general. Majority posters have zero understanding of wars, most people post because of opinion based biased thinking which is why posts do not match with realities and results. Fortunately mine do.

But we have seen one of the most prosperous African countries (Libya) to collapse, we have seen the so-called '4th largest Army in the World' (Iraq) to collapse, and we have seen the once powerful Al-Assad dynasty to collapse. In all those countries, disastrous consequences.
You know your country better than me but I don't rule out similar fate for Iran, as much Pakistanis would hate that fate.

Countries you mentioned were never nation-states, thats why collapse was easy because of inner conflicts. Majority of synthetic countries carved out by colonialists westerners in last century collapsed or were divided due to grey area socio-economic imbalances. I hope you know the difference between a nationstate and state. Libya, Syria, Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon and others etc. They were socioeconomically un-natural from their few decade old creation. Turkey, Iran, Russia, China, Germany on the other hand went through massive wars and forceful divisions but sustained and even grew, wonder why? Countries fall when they are un-natural or artifical by design. The examples I gave are heritage weilding centuries old nation states (millenium old in case of Iran). These nations always bounce back because over thousands or hundreds of years their ruling elite has sorted out the differences within, the population is socio-econimically cohesive to the core despite foriegn attempts. External factors are never permanent, invader will come and go but permanent damage to state comes from within which in case of nation states is always minimal. Different topic.

Minus the socioeconomic understanding and you get doom gamer childish thinking of countries getting "destroyed", "devastated", "neutralized" which is how usual mass on internet thinks.

 

[r3alist]

^ you expect stability after IRGC siphoned 112 Billion USD from Oil revenues in 2025 to their own offshore companies to cause artificial deficit in central bank ? Is there any other explanation how come a country that earned 112 Billion USD worth Yuan/RMB from exports revenues is facing inflation, after massive trade gains. Larijani faction, reformists, IRGC are all in it. Ayatollahs got trapped in this plan, protests are conspiracy for internal regime change which is why Trump-Jews saw through it and left. War with Israel+US would have been be the last stage of this IRGC hatched plan to kick Mullahs out.

So so if I understand correct, power centres within Iran actually want an internal change of guard, and the protesters are the tool?

I mean if the new leadership would liberalise that would take away much of the Western media criticism to an extent.

 

[ToddE]

So so if I understand correct, power centres within Iran actually want an internal change of guard, and the protesters are the tool?

Yes, happened before many times but Ayatollah leadership had more influence locally. This time their power has declined massively, Khamenei has no ally inside Iran right now including IRGC.

I mean if the new leadership would liberalise that would take away much of the Western media criticism to an extent.

Media matters none. What western powers+Jews actually want is (in short since I wrote pages about this before)

(A) IRI stops fueling petro power to Yuan which they are increasingly doing to bring USD down chunk by chunk. They want IRI to enter western debt grip and trade in USD. IRI current moves signal to formation of petro-Yuan (Old BRICS plan).

(B) IRI stop showing fangs to Israel which will happen once the secular non Islamic Iran emerges, even with IRI flag. They want nuclear program and Missile (esp) power gone in exchange for a benign conventional imported military of few squadrons of fighter jets and ships and tanks like KSA, Egypt, Turkey etc that can be taken out through sanctions or shock strikes in case of threat to Israel or western interests.

Reza Pahlavi is asking for support to implement point A and B.

 

[r3alist]

Yes, happened before many times but Ayatollah leadership had more influence locally. This time their power has declined massively, Khamenei has no ally inside Iran right now including IRGC.



Media matters none. What western powers+Jews actually want is (in short since I wrote pages about this before)

(A) IRI stops fueling petro power to Yuan which they are increasingly doing to bring USD down chunk by chunk. They want IRI to enter western debt grip and trade in USD. IRI current moves signal to formation of petro-Yuan (Old BRICS plan).

(B) IRI stop showing fangs to Israel which will happen once the secular non Islamic Iran emerges, even with IRI flag. They want nuclear program and Missile (esp) power gone in exchange for a benign conventional imported military of few squadrons of fighter jets and ships and tanks like KSA, Egypt, Turkey etc that can be taken out through sanctions or shock strikes in case of threat to Israel or western interests.

Reza Pahlavi is asking for support to implement point A and B.

This makes sense, unless there is something we do not know about, the very major powers have not agreed to the Abraham accords, effectively this would be asking Iran to make a path to joining them, so you would need Iranian power structures to completely rewire, and because Israel has upped the ante so much, they cannot allow Iran to play for time.

Iran would be happy to have economic relief, I don't know what equilibrium they can find to have some short to medium breathing space