Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

In order to attain power , across history small pockets of group are formed
which grow over time , and gather resources, it is a natural way how human clans /tribes have gathered power

Modern times names have been "invented" to single out certain group as illegal or not normal , but there is no difference between such group and any other "Power desiring group"

It is just means to attain power

Post Iraq war , group of People came out of Poverty picked up arms as means to change their life outcome , one can argue if no wars took place they would have gone to school and had jobs , and a different life

The group that holds on power , always calls these smaller pockets of power seeker as names as Terrorist , or Trouble makers

Historical Evidence

• Native American resistance was often called "Savages" or "None Human"
• Geronimo a famous Native American was called Terrorist and he remained out of reach of Americans for long periods
• French Colonizers called Algerian freedom fighters as Terrorist
• British Colonizers called 1857 Mutiny in Sub Continent (India-Pakistan-Bangladesh) as act of terrorism , people were shot with bullets
• India calls Burhan Wani a Kashmiri Sepretist as Terrorist

Colonizing forces often call the Natives as Terrorist, it is often means to allow moral authority for own Soldiers or Troops to kill the Natives


The natural flow of power is being controlled artificially in Middle east with Proxy States to prevent locals to attain power

• Any opposing movement is called Terrorist or Khawariji (One who left Islam)

Definition of Khawariji is one who is away from Islamic teaching and commits killing for sake of pleasure


But today we see many states actively beating up their own citizens and amassing wealth , and committing all sort of human right violation, so it makes it very difficult for anyone to know who is Khawarji or not


An Islamic State , is a Hypothetical Perfect world which has never existed in Human history after Passing of Prophet Mohammad

• However even in during prophet Mohammad's time there was war and conflict

In Muslim Faith : (This is normal)
It is illegal for you to not self defend your life and that of your family
There is no Law that forbids defending your own Nation
You are meant to stop Aggressors

This Universal aspect of Humanity are shared in general by all human tribes or clans , a right to exist (All Humans do this)


Genocide , is something that should trigger a Universal Response from Muslim world but we live in a time when Muslim Leaders prefer to attend Board of Peace meetings with Nations who supplied all the bombs to aggressor Israel

• Now this is 100% not allowed in Islamic faith
• Islamic faith asks you to go help the one suffering , not go celebrate in board of peace and clap and smile , while Palestinians are living in tents and under Rubble of buildings destroyed by bombs provided from invaders

Now the focus is Iran same , arguments and same illusions



The one who holds the weapon often decides , what is Khawariji or what is not, history is forged by people holding weapons

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

ISIS/ AQ are those who cannot really understand Quran. Mostly people with black and white thingking, lack of intelligent will get lured to this

This people are not few, you can see people like this in PDF but with different ideology

It is already happening since Caliph period right. Khawarij

Something that unavoidable, we can only limit their action

Just avoid this group to get to leadership position ( I dont talk only with those with Wahaby ideology....)

Im 42 years old, I still have not understand, what holy Quran and namaz has to do with:
(these were the values of our Prophet PBUH, even before he declared his faith!)
1. not telling lies
2. not exploiting those below you
3. giving chance to those who deserve (in other words, dont rig system!)
4. dont pollute any system
5. population control
6. remaining illiterate
7. helping orphans
8. propelling betting in every business deal


these are called civilities in any educated place

if you believe otherwise, then, you dont belong in a civilized society

 

[r3alist]

The answer to all your questions is YES. As for the leverage, I already said how.

Iran didn't even put a dent on Isreal? That's why the media blackout happened right?

I consider the 12 day war a defeat. Not because Israel didn't take losses but because of the strategic implications in the aftermath of the ceasefire. As for Iran did nothing to Israel, Now that sounds like sumfin a shite eating Indian would say. Are you one?

There might yet still be some intelligence to iran's approach, they clearly sent a message and you could argue that back then was the optimal time since Israel was facing global scrutiny for Gaza.

It is difficult to say

Right now the equation effectively has become a binary, Israel will not relent until regime change or collapse, Iran has been playing the nuclear game for a long time but even if trump did not actually slow down the nuclear program that was the terms of the temporary ceasefire.

So if you contradict this then trump has his reason to go hard, even as an embarrassment to him


That to me suggests using nuclear enrichment as a tool is not on the table for Iran

At this moment maximum pressure is on Iran, and everything becomes difficult to do as well as a worsening situation economically, therefore it looks difficult for Iran to even manage an internal regime change on Iranian terms, the major hope for current Iranian government is the big Chinese shipments coming through, which would change the equation for American intervention maybe maybe best case
It's changing the American calculus which is most important now

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Im 42 years old, I still have not understand, what holy Quran and namaz has to do with:
(these were the values of our Prophet PBUH, even before he declared his faith!)
1. not telling lies
2. not exploiting those below you
3. giving chance to those who deserve (in other words, dont rig system!)
4. dont pollute any system
5. population control
6. remaining illiterate
7. helping orphans
8. propelling betting in every business deal


these are called civilities in any educated place

if you believe otherwise, then, you dont belong in a civilized society

Unfortunately during war time one can't practice the basic things a person does that is why it becomes mandatory to protect your country

If a invader is continuing to be an aggressor you have to self defend your interest otherwise look at Palestine

Where are all the Human Rights Bodies? Powerless
Where is UN? Powerless
In end it is the people of Nation who stand up to stop an aggressor
Who is feeding the orphans? or Ensuring they have shelter? In Palestine
Do they have water or food? In Palestine


Under , peace yes of course you focus on Matter of Civil life, the points you mention , are all perfectly admirable qualities


When war is on your head , it is only "your will" to hold weapons and defend your ground is what ensures you and your family have future

• This desire to preserve your identity is universal aspect in all humans, this is normally why nations have Army (hopefully one that does not goes and sells you out )

There is a different code of conduct for War
> When war is imposed on you then you follow the rules defined in Muslim faith to protect your country , your family , your religion

I don't think Islamic value or teaching ask you to be passive
(Statement applicable to Muslim Nations facing war)

And almost 100% it does not say build casinos over dead bodies of Muslims and their cities

 

[PakAl]

Well, Hamas is pretty much history, it seems, at this point. Where Iran goes from here onwards is the more important question relevant to this thread.

Hamas is offshoot of International Muslim Brotherhood movement, and similar to Jamat Islami, so its not so easy to finish off Hamas or its ideology. In Gaza they will most likely be weakened with Saudis and Israeli funding anti Hamas movements. The future for old Islamist types looks bleek. The new islamist types are like Jolani, ready to become puppets, Gaza will have someone similar popping up soon. In Morocco we have Islamist in government but they never followed their own slogans. Its similar to how seculars or nationalist say we want democracy, freedom, human rights but only if they benefit them or else they bring every single law in the book, same with islamists, they use powerful slogans but when in power jump in bed with the same world powers and if they refuse then end up like Hamas.

 

[tsunset]

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Unfortunately there are many of them on this forum

 

[VCheng]

The future for old Islamist types looks bleek

Good. That fact should not be lost on those who provide "political and moral support only" to such groups.

 

[kastor ville]

Unfortunately there are many of them on this forum

Yes...because Arabs are still essentially tribal people...for a 1000 yrs the fighting was amongst other Arab tribes...they need to work that out of their backwards system. They see the American bases as protection, and if the West attacks and Kills their Muslim neighbors, oh well....they others lost a tribal war. Small mentality, terrible for the region, great for corrupt despots.

 

[tsunset]

I've seen an Israeli article that has been deleted which claimed to have received 29 unseen footages of Iranian security forces shooting randomly at tight packed crowds of protesters while laughing and smoking cigarettes. Killing hundreds of thousands of them.

Those videos allegedly didn't make it on internet because of the blackout, they also said that the security forces had miniaturized jammers on them to shut down all devices in a 4km radius so that no one could capture footages of them shooting, but some protesters used disconnected devices to capture footages. And that this miniaturization technology could be used for nuclear weapons and missiles, so that IRGC can fire miniaturized missiles at Israel, which will be undetectable because of their size.

They also told them that the casualties are estimated between 170.000 to 900.000 deaths and 1.3 million to 10 million critically injured, as well as 60 million injuries from light to severe, 105 million total amputated limbs and 32 million people lost their sight, 36 million partially paralyzed, as well as 19 million fully crippled in Stephen Hawking style. They say that Tehran's streets are flooded with Stephen Hawking wheelchairs since the events unfolded.

The executed count are unclear and it's very hard to establish a clear number, but they told them that at least 100.000 protesters have been hanged, although this number is probably significantly higher.

 

[Persian Gulf]

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[hasssanali8998]

Israel assesses that the US will attack Iran and that we are "entering a key week", according to CH13

In a meeting with CENTCOM Commander Brad Cooper, IDF officials demanded that any strike include hits on Iran’s surface-to-surface missile systems and government institutions.

 

[hasssanali8998]

Multiple USAF C-17A movements from Ramstein, Spangdahlem, and Trier routing southeast into the Middle East amid the U.S build up surrounding Iran.

 

[Beast89]

USA is just a jewish colony. The irony is Israel hate the west more than muslims

 

[Dil Pakistan]

I heard they destroyed 2/3rd of the TEL launchers.

That is what I heard as well, and the reason I asked the question. Thank you.

 

[tsunset]

That is what I heard as well, and the reason I asked the question. Thank you.

I'm going to explain you what happened based on the footage Israel uploaded and osint

From visual intel, Israel destroyed at maximum 30 to 40 launchers including inflatable decoys, in the videos they presented, many of them were the same video recycled from different angles to make it look like they destroyed hundreds of them, visual intel shows no more than 40 launchers destroyed, and i don't count the decoy launchers they struck

They push this narrative by saying that's why Iran launched less missiles at the end of the war, but the truth is that this is not because of the launchers nor the missiles, but because the western bases were temporarily blocked because their entrances were struck, but the launchers and missiles are intact, thus central Iran bases were doing 100% of the work, the central missile cities aren't as big and effective as the western ones, which houses the biggest missile bases in Iran

At the time of writing this, the lost launchers are either fixed or rebuilt, and the western missile cities are operational with their entrances fixed