Turkish Air Force | News & Discussions

[hyperman]

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@Oublious @MMM-E

Komşu endişeli görünüyor.

 

[Oublious]

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@Oublious @MMM-E

Komşu endişeli görünüyor.

LoL

When we tell them about our capabilities the Greecs wher laughing us out ahaha, but the reality is different then the internet. They are now trying to tell the people to accept ther lost against us, you can read ther media how mad they are against micotakis. But the poor guy can do nothing anymore. Ther safe heaven was Americans and EU, but they have ther own problems.

 

[Foinikas]

No problem Turkiye can build more KIZILELMA for more cheaper prices
but Greece can not buy more RAFALES-F-16V for billions of Dollars

We can build 7 KIZILELMA in price of 1 RAFALE
even if we lost 3 - 4 KIZILELMA to hunt 1 RAFALE , that will not hurt Turkiye
on the other hand , if Greece lose dozens of RAFALES and F-16V then this will hurt Greece


Btw , Since there won't be any dogfights, KIZILELMA will have a huge advantage. in BVR combat

7 KIZILELMA with 28 GOKBORA/GOKDOGAN air to air Missiles to have capability to shoot down 24 RAFALEs .... thanks to first look , first fire , first kill capability

Oh you think that's the only way to shoot them down?

 

[MMM-E]

Oh you think that's the only way to shoot them down?

PATRIOT Air Defense Systems in Skyros will be destroyed in hours during a conflict

and PATRIOTs in Athens-Thessaloniki can not do anything against KIZILELMA
( the max range of PATRIOT is only 160 km ...... not 250-380 km as S400 )

The moment Greek RAFALE / F-16V Jets cross the 25th meridian in the Aegean Sea, they will find themselves facing the KIZILELMA in BVR combat

--------------------------------------------------

even I am not talking about SIPER-2 and S400 Air Defense Systems
or upcoming Eurofighters with METEOR Missiles

also OZGUR-2 modernized 230 F-16s with 200 km GOKHAN-GOKBORA air to air Missiles will be extra power

 

[MMM-E]

Komşu endişeli görünüyor.

Greek F-16 pilot Stefanos Karavidas:

It's very dangerous that we fall into the trap of prioritizing quality over quantity. Okay, the Kimon frigate recently entered service, we have 24 Rafale aircraft, and while we're upgrading the F-16s to Viper level, we're also waiting for the F-35s.

The F-35 has many virtues, but it also has problems. I think investing all our money, everything, in 20 F-35s is a mistake.

We're giving the F-35s too much importance by arguing that they will be game-changers in the air. But these are tactical fighter jets.

Look at the recent air battle between India and Pakistan; we saw how network-centric warfare makes a difference.

Information about an aircraft whose position is detected by any radar in the air or on the ground can be transmitted to a missile like the PL-15 via a link.

This situation has changed the nature of beyond-horizon air combat. So our problem is much more than just AMRAAM, METEOR, Eurofighter, or Rafale.

The fundamental issue stems from the synergy of cooperation between the Turkish Air Force and the Pakistan Air Force.


---------------------------------------------------------------------

For the past 5 years, I've been talking to FOINIKAS about network-centric warfare, and he just laughed and mocked me

on the other hand , Greek Pilots, having witnessed the recent Pakistan-India conflict, understand and acknowledge the importance of network centric warfare capability


185+ km GOKBORA air to air Missile will be ready soon
That means Turkish F-16s will have same capability with Greek RAFALEs in BVR combat ......Thanks to network centric warfare capability via Boeing E-7T AEWC


The Greeks are always talking about AESA Radar, but another factor will come to the forefront here

Its long range BVR air to air Missile , Greek F-16Vs armed with 120 km AIM-120C7 air to air Missile while Turkish F-16s gets 185-200+ km GOKBORA and GOKHAN ramjet powered air to air Missiles

even without MURAD-100A AESA Radar , Turkish F-16s will detect RAFALE and F-16V from 300-350 km away via E-7T AEWCs

 

[BonPlan]

The Qatar jets are of the latest Tranche and not 3 but 12 jets and potentially more.

The 3 I spoke were : Rafale/EF2000/F-15.....

 

[Foinikas]

PATRIOT Air Defense Systems in Skyros will be destroyed in hours during a conflict

and PATRIOTs in Athens-Thessaloniki can not do anything against KIZILELMA
( the max range of PATRIOT is only 160 km ...... not 250-380 km as S400 )

The moment Greek RAFALE / F-16V Jets cross the 25th meridian in the Aegean Sea, they will find themselves facing the KIZILELMA in BVR combat

--------------------------------------------------

even I am not talking about SIPER-2 and S400 Air Defense Systems
or upcoming Eurofighters with METEOR Missiles

also OZGUR-2 modernized 230 F-16s with 200 km GOKHAN-GOKBORA air to air Missiles will be extra power

Invincible Turkish superweapons...nobody has a chance.

 

[MMM-E]

Invincible Turkish superweapons...nobody has a chance.

You can still try to mock , but real professionals, including the Greek and American Pilots, see what kind of threat is coming


RAFALE and F-16V will be easy targets for the KIZILELMA
PATRIOT will be easy target for the ANKA-3

Good luck

What can the PATRIOT air defense System do against the ANKA-3 ?

The Patriot uses C-band for target detection.

Its performance at 120km is 1.5 m² RCS. The ANKA-3's C-band RCS is 0.002 m².

In this case, the Patriot radar can only detect the ANKA-3 when it is at 23 km.

Therefore, since the ANKA-3 will never approach the radar within 23 km, the Patriot cannot fire at the ANKA-3, but the ANKA-3 can fire TOLUN-IIR or KUZGUN-TJ with RF seeker from 100 km away and harm the Patriot Radar

 

[Ali_Baba]

Invincible Turkish superweapons...nobody has a chance.

Glad you are coming to this conclusion ...

 

[Foinikas]

Glad you are coming to this conclusion ...

Honestly,what else can one do,it's either "you're right" or spam for 10 pages about 500+ projects

 

[Foinikas]

You can still try to mock , but real professionals, including the Greek and American Pilots, see what kind of threat is coming

Lemme get this right: When Turkish analysts talk about Greek superiority in the Air the last 5 years,it's nothing. When American professionals,ex-pilots,discuss HAF vs THK videos and praise the HAF,you call them stupid,silly etc. But now real professionals including Greek and American pilots,are enlightened and have pretty darn good opinions?

 

[Sinan]

Retired Greek Air Force Major General Athanasios Papanikola:

The Turks have succeeded in developing KIZILELMA. It carries a 1.5-ton payload consisting of ammunition, AESA Radar, and defense systems.

What the public needs to understand is that Türkiye has made great progress in various defense platforms.

Even though we are behind Turkiye we are striving to partner with the Israelis, who are extremely advanced in this technology, to close the gap with them.

This gives us an advantage because Israel also has similar fears about the Turks. Because they are also a target of the Turks

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1 -- Israel doesnt have this technology ( unmanned stealth Fighter Jet )

2 -- KIZILELMA has advantage in BVR combat against 4,5th gen Figher Jets



KIZILELMA vs F-16V in BVR Combat

In pure 1-vs-1 BVR (Beyond Visual Range) combat, a Turkish Bayraktar Kızılelma has a realistic chance to beat a Greek F-16V Viper — and in many realistic scenarios it could even have the advantage — but it's not a guaranteed win for either side. The outcome depends heavily on tactics, numbers, supporting assets, electronic warfare, missile quality, launch conditions, and pilot (or operator) skill.Here's a breakdown based on known specs and demonstrated capabilities as of early 2026:Key Comparison Table

Aspect	Bayraktar Kızılelma (current / near-term)	Greek F-16V (Block 70 Viper)	Edge?
Platform type	Unmanned (loyal wingman / autonomous-capable UCAV)	Manned fighter	— (different strengths)
Radar	Aselsan MURAD AESA (GaN-based) ≈ 250–300 km detection claimed, 120+ km tracking	Northrop Grumman AN/APG-83 SABR AESA (very mature)	Roughly comparable (detection likely similar vs non-stealth targets)
RCS (stealth signature)	Low-observable design (smaller + shaping)	Conventional (higher RCS than Kızılelma)	Kızılelma
Max speed	Subsonic now (Mach ~0.9), supersonic variants planned	Mach 2+	F-16V (kinematics)
Service ceiling	~35,000 ft	~50,000+ ft	F-16V
Main BVR missile	Gökdoğan (indigenous AMRAAM-class, active radar, 65+ km baseline, 100–180+ km variants possible)	AIM-120C/D AMRAAM (D variant up to ~160–180 km in good conditions)	Roughly comparable (both solid modern active radar missiles)
Missile carriage	External (wing stations) → hurts stealth when loaded	External (but more stations + higher energy launch)	F-16V (more flexibility)
Situational awareness	AESA + IRST (KARAT) + EOTS, datalink to AWACS/other assets	AESA + Link-16 + HMD + pods, human pilot	F-16V (human + mature NATO integration)
Cost / risk	Much cheaper, zero pilot risk	Expensive, pilot at risk	Kızılelma (attritable)
Demonstrated BVR	Live Gökdoğan kill vs jet target drone (2025), simulated F-16 lock at ~48 km	Operational AIM-120 launches (real combat proven)	Kızılelma has newer public BVR demos

Who Wins in BVR — Realistic Scenarios

1. Head-on, neutral merge, single missile exchange (clean config)
   → Kızılelma has a meaningful edge
   Lower RCS + good AESA means it can often detect and shoot first (especially if Gökdoğan performs near its advertised range). The F-16V sees the Kızılelma later → missile launch advantage to the drone in many geometries.
2. With datalink / AWACS support
   → Either can dominate
   Both platforms shine when fed offboard targeting. Turkey's growing MUM-T (manned-unmanned teaming) with F-16s + Kızılelma swarms could overwhelm. Greece's mature NATO Link-16 integration is excellent too.
3. Realistic squadron-level fight
   → Kızılelma likely wins through numbers / attrition
   Kızılelma is cheaper and attritable. Turkey can produce/operate many more than Greece can replace F-16Vs. Losing 5–10 Kızılelma hurts less than losing one F-16V + pilot

---------------------------------------------------------

In a real Aegean scenario, quantity + integration + risk tolerance would likely favor Turkey's side more than pure 1v1 platform comparison suggests.

So yes — Kızılelma can beat F-16V in BVR, and in many plausible setups it would

View attachment 174804

So, you asked Chatgpt.

Also introduce Karat to Chatgpt and use it on 1 vs 1. Karat detects, Murad pings it, F-16 won't even understand that it's being targetted.

 

[MMM-E]

So, you asked Chatgpt.

Also introduce Karat to Chatgpt and use it on 1 vs 1. Karat detects, Murad pings it, F-16 won't even understand that it's being targetted.

KARAT IRST will be useful to detect the F-35 within range of 50+ km
MURAD AESA Radar can not detect the F-35 from 50+ km away but KARAT IRST can do it

Thermal imaging could make stealth obsolete


better senario against the 4,5th gen Fighters

5 KIZILELMA to turn off their Radars and use E-7T AEWC via data link to detect the RAFALE and F-16V from 350 km and to guide 20 air to air Missiles which will be fired from 5 KIZILELMA .... and YES RAFALE-F-16V Pilots wont even understand that they are being targetted

Cost effective and lethal solution ... new era in BVR air to air combat

Lemme get this right: When Turkish analysts talk about Greek superiority in the Air the last 5 years,it's nothing. When American professionals,ex-pilots,discuss HAF vs THK videos and praise the HAF,you call them stupid,silly etc. But now real professionals including Greek and American pilots,are enlightened and have pretty darn good opinions?

Wake up , this is not 2020-2021 , this is 2026
You are still talking about videos from 2020-2021 ........ and We ( including Greek-American Pilots ) are talking about 2026 with KIZILELMA and ANKA-3 which can turn RAFALE and F-16V into scrap of metal in BVR combat

KIZILELMA to enter the inventory in 2026

 

[Foinikas]

Wake up , this is not 2020-2021 , this is 2026
You are still talking about videos from 2020-2021 ........ and We ( including Greek-American Pilots ) are talking about 2026 with KIZILELMA and ANKA-3 which can turn RAFALE and F-16V into scrap of metal in BVR combat

KIZILELMA to enter the inventory in 2026

Oh it is? Because every time you used to get cornered by me,you would go back to 1974 and 1922 and brag about great victories.

Before ANKA-3 and Kizilelma,you used to repeat that S-400s "can turn Rafale into piece of scrap" so easily. Well,I guess nobody has a chance against regional superpower Turkiye. Not even close,as you say.

 

[MMM-E]

Before ANKA-3 and Kizilelma,you used to repeat that S-400s "can turn Rafale into piece of scrap" so easily. Well,I guess nobody has a chance against regional superpower Turkiye. Not even close,as you say.

36 S400 Air Defense Launchers with 144-192 Missiles vs 24 RAFALEs

Where is Greek air superiority ? with only 24 RAFALEs ?

Also Türkiye has added its 5th SIPER air defense Battery to its inventory.
and ASELSAN will deliver over 100 Air Defense Systems this year

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The era of freely flying in the Aegean like in the 1990s - 2000s is over
Turkiye had nothing in 1990s-2000s-2010s but today is different

If Türkiye deploys these S400 and SIPER Air Defense Systems in Izmir, Balıkesir, Canakkale, and Muğla, RAFALE Jets will become targets when the moment they cross the 25th meridian in the Aegean

40N6E Missile = speed of mach 3,5 and range of 380 km ( against AWACS )
48N6E3 Missile = speed of mach 5,9 and range of 240 km ( against RAFALEs )