Over 15% of Population, but 4.4% of Indian parliament. Lowest Muslim Representation in Six Decades:

Let us wait till the next election and see what impact Swamiji has at the ballot box.

Returning to the topic of the thread.

जय श्रीराम ।

Rambharoseji,

In the video below, Karan Thapar asks some reasonable questions on the representation of Muslims though I disagree with Mr. Guha on the term "Hindu Pakistan "
Elsewhere you had mentioned that the Shia community votes for the BJP. There is no hard data whether the Shia community faces less discrimination than their Sunni counterparts. Even BJP Shia loyalists like Mr. Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi can get neither a ticket nor a cabinet position.

Interesting video nonetheless.


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Returning to the topic of the thread.

जय श्रीराम ।

Rambharoseji,

In the video below, Karan Thapar asks some reasonable questions on the representation of Muslims though I disagree with Mr. Guha on the term "Hindu Pakistan "
Elsewhere you had mentioned that the Shia community votes for the BJP. There is no hard data whether the Shia community faces less discrimination than their Sunni counterparts. Even BJP Shia loyalists like Mr. Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi can get neither a ticket nor a cabinet position.

Interesting video nonetheless.


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Baibers_1260 ji,

I respect Mr Thapar's right to express his opinion and chose his interview guests, but I find his interviews boringly monotonous. I have watched some of them for his perspective, but they are quite predictable in the narrative they present, so, even though I am not going to watch this interview, I have a good sense of what it is going to be about, especially since Mr Guha's reputation also precedes him.

There is no reliable exit poll data that tracks how Shias vs Sunnis vote in India, so I cannot provide any evidence that Shias are more likely to vote for the BJP, but, historically Shia organizations have been more supportive of the BJP's positions and vice versa, and, I don't think it is unreasonable to assume the voting patterns reflect that.

In the past, the BJP has had prominent Muslim MPs/ministers like Sikander Bakht Sahab, MJ Akbar Sahab, Mukhtar Naqvi Sahab, Shahnawaz Hussain Sahab, Najma Heptullah Sahiba and others. They also nominated APJ Abdul Kalam Sahab for President. While these appointments were made on merit, there was also an element of tokenism involved to ensure that Muslims had at least some visible prominent representation. Of late, that approach has changed and the party has tried to engage with Muslim voters directly and have all leaders starting with Modi ji represent them instead of just having a few Muslim faces for show. Interestingly enough, it is the BJP rather than the self-proclaimed secular parties that are passing legislation to protect the rights of Muslim women. It is the BJP that wants to bring in a uniform civil code, which was one of the Directive Principles put into the Constitution by the secular founding fathers of the Republic, and which is a cornerstone of modern secular states in the developed world and it is the so-called secular parties that are the most opposed to it.
 
In the past, the BJP has had prominent Muslim MPs/ministers like Sikander Bakht Sahab, MJ Akbar Sahab, Mukhtar Naqvi Sahab, Shahnawaz Hussain Sahab, Najma Heptullah Sahiba and others. They also nominated APJ Abdul Kalam Sahab for President. While these appointments were made on merit, there was also an element of tokenism involved to ensure that Muslims had at least some visible prominent representation.
जय श्रीराम ।
Interesting viewpoint!
Since you go by "hard data".. how many Muslim MP's does the BJP have in the Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha "on merit" as of today ?
What is the level or standard of "merit " the BJP has for selecting candidates for its Parliament and State Legislature?
Do Muslim politicians today measure up to the standards if merit accorded in the selection of MJ Akbar, Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi, etc ?
On Shia voting for BJP, refer to your quote below. What is the hard data for your statement?

Post in thread 'Trump says India will buy oil from Venezuela instead of Iran'
https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...-venezuela-instead-of-iran.30156/post-1128710
Extract:
" However, he has proved to be an extremely capable and fair administrator in a state with a long history of corruption and poor governance, and has managed to win over at least some sections of the Muslim voters, apart from some Shia voters who had started supporting the BJP even earlier. In that respect, he is not very different from Modi ji"
i
Of late, that approach has changed and the party has tried to engage with Muslim voters directly and have all leaders starting with Modi ji represent them instead of just having a few Muslim faces for show. Interestingly enough, it is the BJP rather than the self-proclaimed secular parties that are passing legislation to protect the rights of Muslim women. It is the BJP that wants to bring in a uniform civil code, which was one of the Directive Principles put into the Constitution by the secular founding fathers of the Republic, and which is a cornerstone of modern secular states in the developed world and it is the so-called secular parties that are the most opposed to it
So the "secular founding fathers" of the republic also put in the provision of Scheduled castes, Scheduled Tribes and other backward castes where Articles 14 to 18 under Part III (Fundamental Rights), guaranteeing equality including gender equality before the law is not applicable to Scheduled Castes and Tribes where polygamy ( Example: Meena community of Rajasthan) and Polyandry ( Example: Hatti community of Himachal ) is widely practiced. How the UCC is interpreted by the "secular founding fathers " of the Indian Constitution is the example of its selective implementation in Uttakhand.
The Uniform Civil Code (UCC), particularly in the context of the
Uttarakhand Act of 2024, specifically exempts Scheduled Tribes (STs) from its provisions, allowing them to continue following their customary laws
 
Last edited:
It is the BJP that wants to bring in a uniform civil code, which was one of the Directive Principles put into the Constitution by the secular founding fathers of the Republic, and which is a cornerstone of modern secular states in the developed world and it is the so-called secular parties that are the most opposed to it.
जय श्रीराम ।
@Ram Bharoseji
So only so-called secular parties oppose UCC?
I thought Hindutva parties were also. opposed and want the Manusmriti adopted instead which was the law in India for 2000 years.
On a different note:

Tribal communities in India, particularly in the Northeast and central regions, largely oppose the Uniform Civil Code (UCC) due to fears that it will override their distinct, customary laws regarding marriage, inheritance, and land rights, which are constitutionally protected under Articles 371A and 371G. Key concerns include the erosion of unique cultural identities, specifically matrilineal systems in states like Meghalaya.
Core Reasons for Tribal Opposition:
  • Protection of Customary Laws: Tribal communities are governed by traditional, diverse, and often unwritten customs. They fear the imposition of a uniform, potentially "mainstream" law will violate these, especially regarding land ownership and property inheritance, which may differ from national laws.
  • Constitutional Safeguards: Many tribes believe that provisions for special status under the Fifth and Sixth Schedules of the Constitution prevent the application of such a unified code, viewing it as a move against their constitutional rights.
  • Cultural Erosion & Identity: There is deep apprehension that a UCC will lead to the assimilation of indigenous practices into a broader national culture, destroying the unique cultural identity of over 700 diverse tribes.
  • Matrilineal Society Protection: In states like Meghalaya, where inheritance passes through the mother, tribes fear the UCC would destroy their,6unique matrilineal system.
  • Impact on Land Rights: Customary laws often prevent non-tribals from owning land in tribal areas. There is fear that a uniform code could threaten these special protections, allowing for exploitation of their ancestral land.
 
@RamBharose
जय श्रीराम ।
Question for you.
Will the secular proposed UCC ( with presumably anti-polygamy laws ) be applicable only to Muslims or to will it be applicable to tribal communities such as Nagas Adivasis and SC communities such as Meenas.
Are only the rights of Muslim women under protection and concern by the BJP?
( By the way, I support the implementation of a fully secular Uniform Civil Code as are functional in the "developed " countries ( actually these are based on Judeo-Christian principles) for Pakistan as well )

Please comment on the picture below.

1770568578921.png
 
@Malcolm Reynolds
"they say, he's a vote cutter, a B team of BJP."

जय श्री राम ।
Ram Bharose ji 🙏🏻

In a similar manner Shankaracharya Swami Avimukteshwaranand Saraswati. is a vote cutter looking to split the so-called Rashtra Bhakt Hindutva BJP party's Hindu vote bank in UP and elsewhere.
Shankaracharya Swami Avimukteshwaranand Saraswati has demanded that UP Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath prove his Hindutva credentials by the following actions.

1. Stopping the export of beef from UP​
2. Declaring the cow as the Rajmata​

Interesting report in the Indian Express
(Link)

Who is Swami Avimukteshwaranad Saraswati, the ‘Shankaracharya’ taking on BJP?​

While he has had fraught relations with BJP, Jyotirmath “Shankaracharya” had also been at odds with past UP govts under SP and BSP as well as the previous Congress-led UPA govt at the Centre

View attachment 177522


While tensions between Swami Avimukteshwaranad Saraswati and the BJP have now flared up, he had also been at odds with the past Uttar Pradesh governments led by the Samajwadi Party (SP) and the Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) as well as the previous Congress-led UPA government at the Centre.

Last week, Swami Saraswati returned to his math in Varanasi after holding 11 days of sit-in protest in Prayagraj over being allegedly prevented by the local administration from taking a holy dip in the Triveni Sangam on Mauni Amavasya on January 18. He was also questioned by the Prayagraj Mela Authority over his use of the title “Shankaracharya” of Jyotirmath in Uttarakhand.

Two days after his return from Magh Mela, on January 30, Swami Saraswati gave a 40-day “ultimatum” to Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath to “declare gau mata” as “rajya mata” and take steps to stop the export of “cow meat”. Maintaining that the Magh Mela row was over and would be addressed only during next year’s mela, Saraswati said it was now the CM’s turn to address his demands and give “proof of being a Hindu”.

Stint in student politics​

Saraswati, 56, hails from Brahmanpur village in UP’s Pratapgarh district. His original name is Umashankar Pandey. He shifted to Gujarat for studies where he came in contact of Dwarka Shardapeethadhishwar Shankaracharya Swami Swaroopanand Saraswati who inspired him to study Sanskrit in Kashi (Varanasi).

Elevation to ‘Shankaracharya’​

Swami Avimukteshwarand’s pattabhishek (ritual for coronation as Shankaracharya) was performed on September 12, 2022, a day after Swaroopanand Saraswati passed away. “Pattabhishek ceremony of Swami Avimukteshwaranand as Shankaracharya of Jytish Peeth and Sadanand Saraswati as Shankaracharya of Dwarka peeth were performed as per the written will of Swami Swaroopananda Saraswati Maharaj,” said Yogiraj Sarkar, national media in-charge of Avimukteshwaranand. He said this coronation was performed within 24 hours of the departure of Swaroopanand Saraswati because the Peeth can not be left vacant.

Amid the tussle over Mauni Amavasya snan at the Sangam, the Magha Mela Authority under the state government, citing a 2022 Supreme Court order, issued a notice to Swami Saraswati, asking him to explain why he was using the “Shankaracharya” title.

In its notice dated January 19, the Mela Authority referred to a civil appeal pending in the Supreme Court in this matter. The notice stated that since no further order has been passed in the plea, until the Supreme Court disposes of the appeal in question or passes a further order regarding the consecration, no Dharmacharya can be consecrated as Shankaracharya of Jyotish Peeth.

In response, Swami Saraswati’s team said it would take legal action against the Mela Authority, accusing it of interfering with the age-old traditions of Shankaracharya and his disciples.

On the pending case in the apex court, Yogiraj Sarkar said: “Swami Vasudevanand Saraswati had earlier challenged the coronation of Swaroopanand Saraswati as Shankaracharya of Jyotish Peeth and later he challenged the coronation of Avimukteshwaranand ji but no final order has come in his recent petition.”

Multiple rows​

Swami Saraswati has been a vocal seer, who has often made headlines by making statements castigating various governments on different issues.

While the UP BJP leaders have officially refrained from making any comments during Saraswati’s protest against alleged “high-handedness’ of the Prayagraj administration and Mela Authority against him and his followers, some of them have dubbed him “pro-Congress” and “anti-BJP”, flagging the point that UP Congress chief Ajay Rai not only backed the seer’s sit-in, but also visited him.

The All India Congress Committee (AICC)’s media and publicity department chairman Pawan Khera has attacked the BJP, alleging that the ruling party used to ask Muslims “kaagaz dikhao” (show the papers) and was now telling the same to a top Hindu seer.

The Akhilesh Yadav-led SP too extended its support to Saraswati, accusing the BJP of “disrespecting Sanatan Dharma”.

From the BJP camp, only Deputy CM Keshav Prasad Maurya urged Avimukteshwaranand to take a holy dip in Prayagraj while promising action against those officials who might have disrespected him.

However, CM Adityanath seemed to have struck a different note. While speaking at an event in Haryana then, Adityanath, without naming anyone, said, “Aise kayi kalnemi honge jo dharma ki aadh mein Sanatan Dharma ko kamzor karne ki sazish rach rahe honge. Humein unse sawadhan hona hoga, satarka rehna hoga (There would be many such demons, who under the pretext of religion are conspiring to weaken Sanatan Dharma. We need to be watchful and on alert against such people).”

But it was not the first time Avimukteshwaranand has found himself at the centre of a controversy. He has had fraught relations with the BJP.

In the wake of the stampede at the Mahakumbh Mela in Prayagraj in January 2025, in which at least 30 people were killed, Saraswati had blamed the Adityanath government for the incident.

In January 2024, ahead of the consecration of the Ram Temple in Ayodhya, Avimukteshwaranand not only declined to attend the ceremony, but also objected to the consecration taking place for an “under-construction temple”.

A year earlier, he had alleged that 228 kg of gold was missing from the Kedarnath Temple in Uttarakhand, referring to it as a “scam”.

Akhilesh Yadav spoke to Swami Saraswati over phone to extend the SP’s support to him over the Magh mela row, but it was under his government in September 2015 when the police had cracked down on the protesters, including Avimukteshwaranand, who had blocked the Godaulia Chauraha near Dashashwamedha ghat in Varanasi, demanding that the Ganesha idol should be immersed in Ganga.

Violence and arson had then broken out in Varanasi during a protest march by seers and other local leaders against police action, following which Ajay Rai had left for Delhito meet Rahul Gandhi. Rai was arrested from the Varanasi airport following his return.

“He (Saraswati) is neither a supporter nor an opponent of any particular political party. He had opposed demolition of Rani Bhawani temple during the Mayawati government. He protested the insult of lord Ganesha’s idol during the Samajwadi Party government. He ran a Mandir Bachao Andolan to protect the idols and temples during the development of Kashi Vishwanath corridor in the first term of Yogi Adityanath government. He led Ganga Andolan against the Congress-led UPA government.
Also, he had excommunicated Rahul from Hinduism for allegedly ‘insulting’ the ancient Sanskrit text, the Manusmriti,” said Sanjay Pandey, another media in-charge of Avimukteshwaranand.

Pandey said Swami Saraswati had launched Ramsetu Rakasha Andolan and had also run Ganga Seva Abhiyan to demand that Ganga be declared a national river. “The Ganga demand was accepted by the UPA government. He also fought for the construction of Ram Temple,” Pandey claimed.

(Link

Swami Saraswati is a SP (Samajwadi Party) stooge. he is taken as much seriously as much Rahul Gandhi is taken seriously. He is there to put pressure on Yogiji but Yogiji routinely ignores him and his ultimatums.

A large portion of Shia muslims vote for Yogiji and BJP will come back to power in the next assembly elections. Swami Saraswati will still be seen pouting once again.

aaand, Our Owaisi saab will be seen as a vote cutter by the muslims of india as the UP muslim vote will be divided into SP/Congress and AIMIM in the elections. that is exactly what BJP wants.

by the way, what's your point about Swami Saraswati ? you just listed out his BIO.
 
Swami Saraswati is a SP (Samajwadi Party) stooge. he is taken as much seriously as much Rahul Gandhi is taken seriously. He is there to put pressure on Yogiji but Yogiji routinely ignores him and his ultimatums.

A large portion of Shia muslims vote for Yogiji and BJP will come back to power in the next assembly elections. Swami Saraswati will still be seen pouting once again.

aaand, Our Owaisi saab will be seen as a vote cutter by the muslims of india as the UP muslim vote will be divided into SP/Congress and AIMIM in the elections. that is exactly what BJP wants.

by the way, what's your point about Swami Saraswati ? you just listed out his BIO.
It is irrelevant what votes Owaisi cuts or doesn't cut, The Hindutva vote bank is solid .
BJP will remain in power for the next 2000 years and in the next 12 months will declare Bharat as a Hindu Rashtra to be governed by the laws of Manu as demanded by the famous Marg Darshak Samiti declaration on December 21, 2021.



 
Yeah because that muslim leadership is turning Hindu adjacent, hence the success for those countries and us as well.

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anyways, I was pointing towards neighboring failing muslim countries.

Pakistan and Bangladesh have more temples than Saudi arabia if thats your metric to compare. You cannot hide your bigotry, can you?
 
I am not sure what is meant by this. Who even said anything about killing muslims?
@Malcolm Reynolds
Actually Godse was motivated by Veer Savarkar and later by Guru Golwalkar . Godse is a hero to the Marg Darshak Samiti of seers in Haridwar.

The Haridwar declaration of December 21, 2021 called for the establishment of the "1000,000 club " .. or one million volunteers who each pledge to kill at least 150 Muslims . That would be the Final Solution of the Indian Muslims.

 
@Malcolm Reynolds
Actually Godse was motivated by Veer Savarkar and later by Guru Golwalkar . Godse is a hero to the Marg Darshak Samiti of seers in Haridwar.

The Haridwar declaration of December 21, 2021 called for the establishment of the "1000,000 club " .. or one million volunteers who each pledge to kill at least 150 Muslims . That would be the Final Solution of the Indian Muslims.


you're quite good at twisting logic to suit your agenda,

in one paragraph, you're talking about Godse, Savarkar etc, and the next paragraph is about a "Genocide" of indian muslims in Modi India. how conveniently you jumped from one to another without an iota of semblence between the two.

Godse killed Gandhi. no muslims. Godse was in the 1950s.

The article is leftist commie garbage being peddled to defame the Modi govt which provides free food, house and other amenities like loans and free education to a muslim family of 40 of 1 man. Obviously, you don't know that. You will ignore that.

you should put your point straight and not try to mix apples and oranges to write just something.
 

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