Indian Air Force News and Discussions ll

[Vkdindian1]

Tested with newly designed and manufactured afterburning section from BrahMos aerospace. Old one wasn't delivering enough thrust. Newer one is being tested but so far no data on it's thrust output. Would be fitted on Tejas for test flight.

Variable cycle engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes. Just read about it.

Brahmos Aerospace has expertise in hot section design and they may have pitched in with that.

Presence of Defence Minister shows the importance being given to jet engine project. Given the right push and resources GTRE may be able to dish out something useful and better than initial Kaveri variants. Not manned aircraft worthy but good enough for unmanned smaller aircraft. That itself would give us some self reliance.

I would like to point out at the Chinese efforts in this area. They have pumped in more than 40 billion USD in their jet engine programme. They are still not at the pinnacle. Chinese leadership under Xi fully backed it as they realised the value of such an endeavour long back while we were still sleeping.

Compared to that, the cumulative budget of GTRE has been 400 million USD. The total research budget for DRDO has been well short of 40 Billion USD, if we add up their entire historical budget allocation. There can’t be a shortcut in this. Even the best minds need the best money to create decent stuff.

Expecting Safaran or Rolls Royce to give us all the know how for 10-12 billion USD looks a little far fetched to me.

 

[Ali_Baba]

After india buying 114 Rafale, and if that actually happens.
Pakistan can take two different routes.
Invest in very advanced air defence, like USSR did against the west.
Or buy J-35 .
I am leaning towards a better Air defence system, and keep building more Thunder block 3

Offense is the best form of defence. Being able to impose a cost to the enemy is worth more than waiting to get bombed and hope you catch everything.

J-35AE is the way to go.

PAF has been quiet on J10CE as it is saving all its pennies for J-35AE I reckon as the PAF has IAF covered for now.

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Wasn’t Kaveri tested with after burner earlier too? What is different this time?

Modi had declared development of jet engine to be a national mission in his address to the nation from the Red Fort on 15 Aug last year. It took more than 70 years after independence to realise that development of a jet engine has to be a strategic programme of national importance. India should have started it along with its missile development program. It would have reached somewhere better than where we are now.

I'm curious about this idea: why not give the jet engine development project to ISRO or the team that developed the rocket engines instead of GTRE/DRDO? I realize the two engines are different, but I'm leaning toward people who have a history of delivering with better timelines rather than those stuck in a vicious cycle.

 

[Vkdindian1]

Offense is the best form of defence. Being able to impose a cost to the enemy is worth more than waiting to get bombed and hope you catch everything.

J-35AE is the way to go.

PAF has been quiet on J10CE as it is saving all its pennies for J-35AE I reckon as the PAF has IAF covered for now.

Pakistan has always displayed shorter induction cycle. Decision to indict J10 was taken after Rafale was chosen by India. PAF would wait and watch and can do the same by indicting J35 just in time to create adequate deterrence.

 

[Vkdindian1]

I'm curious about this idea: why not give the jet engine development project to ISRO or the team that developed the rocket engines instead of GTRE/DRDO? I realize the two engines are different, but I'm leaning toward people who have a history of delivering with better timelines rather than those stuck in a vicious cycle.

Even they would need resources that India wasn’t ready to give for a jet engine, as the importance wasn’t understood. The money required is so astronomical that political will at the highest level is needed for such an allocation of budget and other resources. We can also say that India didn’t have that kind of money earlier.

Right now they are realising that they have to spend all most 40 billion USD for Rafales from France and the main bottleneck for indigenous fighter has been the jet engine. That’s how Modi has made it a national mission. A little late, but, better late than never.

GTRE scientists come from the same stock as the ISRO. No one can produce a jet engine with a budget of 400 million USD. Rocket engine is a piece of cake compared to a jet engine. Thats why there are many nations with a successful space programme but they don’t have a jet engine.

 

[r3alist]

It is a failure of our leaders. They have failed on many others areas too. Can’t do anything about it.

How long would it take to make one?

No idea.


Hmmm. That’s a very good suggestion. If one has failed in an area then one should never try again. Past failures would never allow one to succeed ever. Great idea. Let me write to Modi and pass on these pearls of wisdom from a well meaning well wisher.

There is admirable and there is simply bad choices.

If you consider the level of resource and quality of engineer you need, and then you look at your position relative to other nations, this endeavour could become another tejas.

Forget China I do not think you are even really close to Turkey
It's realistic.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

If it took 70 years to realise then how long to deliver? 150 years?

I am not being as facetious as you think, but what sort of comment is this?

And if you are out of the game in engine production why even bother trying to catch up, because it is just such an uphill task

India isn't a newbie in jet engine tech and will get there no matter how much time it takes. Foreign partnership is being sought to compress timelines to get it completed.

Giving up is a sign of losers, we all know that. No one should give up on any ambition be it personal or national

 

[Oracle]

Saw thread.
Thought another one crashed... Nothing happened.
Now am disappointed

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

India isn't a newbie in jet engine tech and will get there no matter how much time it takes. Foreign partnership is being sought to compress timelines to get it completed.

Giving up is a sign of losers, we all know that. No one should give up on any ambition be it personal or national

India will get the Jet Engine - Yes.
No matter how much time it takes - That's the problem area. Indian usually have the habbit of downplay "time" in their equation. They are very skilled people but always compromise on "time" against "cost" and "risk".

 

[r3alist]

India isn't a newbie in jet engine tech and will get there no matter how much time it takes. Foreign partnership is being sought to compress timelines to get it completed.

Giving up is a sign of losers, we all know that. No one should give up on any ambition be it personal or national

Yes India is a newbie because countries like turkey have even raced ahead of you.


There is clearly an intellectual and technical gap in the India military ecosystem.


Of course you may console yourself with following failing projects and converting this to a virtue, this is the apparent level of dialogue, that being said the question is will you have a good product and how long will it take.

You don't know and you don't have anything to suggest Indians should be confident.

Ultimately it is India's strategic choice, but being honest you cannot say you are enthusiastic about the end product

 

[CallSignMaverick]

Thats why there are many nations with a successful space programme but they don’t have a jet engine.

Incorrect. The list is more or less same. Rocket engine isn't as easy as people think. Which is why few countries are forced to use modified ballistic missiles to deploy a few dozen kg payload to orbit.

UK has RollsRoyce but no orbital capability.

Forget China I do not think you are even really close to Turkey

There's a limit to being ignorant

Yes India is a newbie because countries like turkey have even raced ahead of you.

There is clearly an intellectual and technical gap in the India military ecosystem.

Maybe, maybe not.

Of course you may console yourself with following failing projects and converting this to a virtue, this is the apparent level of dialogue, that being said the question is will you have a good product and how long will it take.

Getting it done matters more than anything, even if it takes time.

You don't know and you don't have anything to suggest Indians should be confident.

Good to know

 

[r3alist]

Getting it done matters more than anything, even if it takes time.

Yes and the world will stand still waiting for you to catch up.

 

[r3alist]

Maybe, maybe not.

I don't think, trust me bro we are so smart, will give you the engine you want.

it's lack of brain power and capability, that's why you explicitly ask for technology transfers.

 

[Sam6536]

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HAL Prachand somewhere over the Himalayas. Design wise looks to be one othe early prototypes.

 

[hasssanali8998]

There's a limit to being ignorant

no he is just being truthfull ,turkey will have engines for kaan before u do for tejas