Indian Air Force News and Discussions ll

[r3alist]

unfortunately you're blinded by your bias. We can have this conversation again when the turk engine is undergoing tests.

Objective facts that you do not like are not bias.


You see you don't want to benchmark to China, and when I say benchmark I just mean a sufficient broad strokes comparator now Turkey is unpalatable,


but the truth is to bracket India with Turkey is generous to India, if you consider overall advancements, I mean who has more pioneering air warfare developments......


Because when it comes to military capability, in this iron sharpen's iron world, you are judged on how you measure against your adversary


Okay fine, let's pretend just to be nice that China was never a competitor, so India therefore then chooses Pakistan.

But Turkey as well would be too much

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

it doesnt matter whether they finished or not- learning comes from things like these. I dont see how the turks are ahead... The Indians are still ahead, until the Turks have built something that is produced en masse and entered into service, i will hold this opinion

bhai, You know we have MMM-E here on this forum…Looks like I’ll have to tag him on this message, and then watch him blow this whole thread away with his usual sky‑high claims

 

[Vkdindian1]

bhai, You know we have MMM-E here on this forum…Looks like I’ll have to tag him on this message, and then watch him blow this whole thread away with his usual sky‑high claims

He hasn’t seen these posts, otherwise he would have blown all Indian posters out of water by now. It can happen any moment now.

Folks, this thread is not about China or Turkey but India.
India has achieved quite a lot and needs to do a lot more.

Few people are suggesting that India can’t achieve anything because China has moved ahead. How stupid is that?

 

[Oscar]

He hasn’t seen these posts, otherwise he would have blown all Indian posters out of water by now. It can happen any moment now.

Folks, this thread is not about China or Turkey but India.
India has achieved quite a lot and needs to do a lot more.

Few people are suggesting that India can’t achieve anything because China has moved ahead. How stupid is that?

China’s achievements are technically irrelevant to India’s - moreover China’s path ir a derivative of its manpower, resources and their specific application based on their socio-economic culture and work ethic. Their utilization of their workforce is totally different to Indias and so is the distribution of process and quality. It is not just a money poured in achievement.

What India will or wont achieve will be due to its own factors which include workforce and administrative culture that cannot be changed overnight or solved with just money.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

India has signed a 8.6 billion deal for Israelis missiles like lora rampage and drones ...again part of plans for long range strike capacity build up

No, the israeli journos made it up. The ₹79,000 crore procurement fund released after the may conflict was for replenishment of all sorts of munitions and missiles. No contract of that value signed with israel.

 

[Vkdindian1]

China’s achievements are technically irrelevant to India’s - moreover China’s path ir a derivative of its manpower, resources and their specific application based on their socio-economic culture and work ethic. Their utilization of their workforce is totally different to Indias and so is the distribution of process and quality. It is not just a money poured in achievement.

What India will or wont achieve will be due to its own factors which include workforce and administrative culture that cannot be changed overnight or solved with just money.

All our limitations are our very own and we need to find a way to address them.

Chinese and Turkish Industries have displayed amazing innovations and set many benchmarks. I wish we could implement Turkish model on Kaan or Chinese model on so many aspects.
But we haven’t been able to and wouldn’t be able to.

 

[Corax]

This is honestly useless because you're not interested in fact, but rather, supporting your bias.

Just some details on GTRE:

Gas Turbine Research Establishment

Gas Turbine Research Establishment, Laboratory of the Defence Research & Development Organisation

www.nti.org

Then you've got HAL Turbine
PTAE-7

with a few others in development.

Its a very silly game you're trying to play. The WS-10 took China about 45 years to get to the stage where its able to be mass produced.

Kaveri was initated at a similar time, though, with a pathetically tiny budget. 1/6th of what it typically costs to design an engine.

Where is the Turkish engine? Lets stop being silly. Indian engine expertise is far greater than Turkish, with a proper budget i do believe GTRE could probably build something competitive enough.

Who would have thought?! Arslan defending and bigging up indian aerospace achievements...or rather lack thereof

 

[r3alist]

China’s achievements are technically irrelevant to India’s - moreover China’s path ir a derivative of its manpower, resources and their specific application based on their socio-economic culture and work ethic. Their utilization of their workforce is totally different to Indias and so is the distribution of process and quality. It is not just a money poured in achievement.

What India will or wont achieve will be due to its own factors which include workforce and administrative culture that cannot be changed overnight or solved with just money.

This is a more sophisticated way of saying the Chinese work significantly harder, organize better, and have an average level of intelligence across their workforce that enables them to make rapid progress..... India is not in the same ballpark, might be a conclusion


Blaming Administrative culture has to start being seen as a symptom of stupidity not an understandable mitigating circumstance, in the context of national security decisions.

Also let's not ignore that when it comes to commercial investment India likes to position itself as the next potential China, as a competitor possibly to its industrial output, so of course when it suits India actively cultivates a possibility to compare to China.


But we can't do this in terms of military, then it becomes irrelevant apparently.

this is not something one needs to necessarily repeat but for similar projects if China can produce a significant project in x years then India will roughly be 3x? 4X?7x?

And then Turkey becomes another interesting comparator. And it is precisely this Delta in making progress which necessitates stop gap solutions to requirements as well as having an important impact on geopolitical equations

To be slightly more provocative, in Pakistan's context they also delivered a successful fourth gen fighter program

 

[Ak01]

Who would have thought?! Arslan defending and bigging up indian aerospace achievements...or rather lack thereof

Because burying your head in the sand does nothing!

I like objective fact and not bias. I’m not interested in sitting here screaming hueueue tejunk…etc

 

[harpy1]

This is a more sophisticated way of saying the Chinese work significantly harder, organize better, and have an average level of intelligence across their workforce that enables them to make rapid progress..... India is not in the same ballpark, might be a conclusion


Blaming Administrative culture has to start being seen as a symptom of stupidity not an understandable mitigating circumstance, in the context of national security decisions.

Also let's not ignore that when it comes to commercial investment India likes to position itself as the next potential China, as a competitor possibly to its industrial output, so of course when it suits India actively cultivates a possibility to compare to China.


But we can't do this in terms of military, then it becomes irrelevant apparently.

this is not something one needs to necessarily repeat but for similar projects if China can produce a significant project in x years then India will roughly be 3x? 4X?7x?

And then Turkey becomes another interesting comparator. And it is precisely this Delta in making progress which necessitates stop gap solutions to requirements as well as having an important impact on geopolitical equations

To be slightly more provocative, in Pakistan's context they also delivered a successful fourth gen fighter program

China is super power with 19 trillion gdp
India is a regional power with 4 trillion gdp
Stop comparing
Turkey is tiny power compared to India in gdp Forex reserves geography but seem bigger to other South Asian countries because they lack Indian national size and power it's perception thing based on their weaknesses..

Example
Turkey buying 30/40 Typhoon at 10 billion
India buying 145 Rafales for 45 billion
Both speaking to Rolls-Royce for engines support for kaan and Amca
Turkey build drones
Corvettes tanks artillery frigates
India builds
Aircraft carriers
Nuke subs destroyed
Nuclear missiles

Turkey spendy 30 billion on defense
India sends 85 billion on defense

India is far bigger far more powerful country
That's why the world is flocking to India for business
That's why
France Israel Germany UK Russia even USA want Indian arms deals

Kaan is decade away from Induction that's why they want Typhoons
There current F16s would be slaughtered by Greece Rafales

 

[CallSignMaverick]

There current F16s would be slaughtered by Greece Rafales

No, its just that their F-16 airframes are very old now and need urgent replacement in near future.

 

[r3alist]

China is super power with 19 trillion gdp
India is a regional power with 4 trillion gdp
Stop comparing
Turkey is tiny power compared to India in gdp Forex reserves geography but seem bigger to other South Asian countries because they lack Indian national size and power it's perception thing based on their weaknesses..

Example
Turkey buying 30/40 Typhoon at 10 billion
India buying 145 Rafales for 45 billion
Both speaking to Rolls-Royce for engines support for kaan and Amca
Turkey build drones
Corvettes tanks artillery frigates
India builds
Aircraft carriers
Nuke subs destroyed
Nuclear missiles

Turkey spendy 30 billion on defense
India sends 85 billion on defense

India is far bigger far more powerful country
That's why the world is flocking to India for business
That's why
France Israel Germany UK Russia even USA want Indian arms deals

Kaan is decade away from Induction that's why they want Typhoons
There current F16s would be slaughtered by Greece Rafales

You guys have an instinctive habit to focus on topLine numbers, for example the GDP, and answer every question just stating your gdp.


How it is a flex that the world is flocking to sell you arms and squeeze every rupee out of you
..it does not signify anything other than lack of progress, the persistent need to find stop gap solutions and dependency

China is a 19 trillion economy because they actually resolved a path to independence and executed it again I am not saying India should be the same obviously not, but this difference in capability can proxy for the threat China poses to India, do you think China is going to slow down suddenly in execution?

Turkey has developed real decisiveness and innovation in their military development especially drone capability, sorry why do you deserve to be compared to innovators? You have one bunch of guys talking about 4 trillion on a PDF report and then others who made the whole world pay attention with their Innovations during Armenia Azerbaijan war.

 

[Corax]

Because burying your head in the sand does nothing!

I like objective fact and not bias. I’m not interested in sitting here screaming hueueue tejunk…etc

True, the only objective fact is neither india nor Türkiye has built a combat jet engine.

 

[harpy1]

Like I said you people can big up Turkey all you like to us Indians they are medium power they don't have the military and industry power of India

They have niche innovation but Indian arms industry is massive building major capital weapons right across the spectrum

Heck India has its own GPS satalites system in space navicc
Heck our own nuclear armed submarines
Heck our own guided missile destroys
Our own aircraft carriers

Never mind the niche industries like Sam systems or artillery or radars that India is building for decades

 

[r3alist]

Turkey is average power their drones utterly failed in Sindoor by Indian indengious akashteer

Yes Indian akashteer Indian developed anti drone system took.out 800 Pak drones in three days from.china Iran and Turkey

This is Indian innovation

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They are a closer to a fifth generation fighter than India is. They have 90 million people and you have 1.5 billion

Your air chief is lamenting publicly that nothing ever gets done.

Stay hallucinating