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Like I said you people can big up Turkey all you like to us Indians they are medium power they don't have the military and industry power of India

They have niche innovation but Indian arms industry is massive building major capital weapons right across the spectrum

Heck India has its own GPS satalites system in space navicc
Heck our own nuclear armed submarines
Heck our own guided missile destroys
Our own aircraft carriers

Never mind the niche industries like Sam systems or artillery or radars that India is building for decades
They have 80 million people.

Because we can triangulate India between Turkey and China


China represents vast human resource and organization India can only dream of.

Turkey with 80 million simply represents superior strategy and people intelligence, India has a ceiling in terms of what it can deliver and even potentially absorb.

Right now India should be a major seller of military aircraft to the third world, it is Pakistan who holds that position instead.

So let's not assess India relative to others, let's just all agree they have a big GDP and are Powerful...no further questions please
 
True, the only objective fact is neither india nor Türkiye has built a combat jet engine.
this isnt objectively true, while India has built an underperforming engine, they've built one! Naturally, when improving you avoid the previous mistakes and errors etc. Look at the story behind the python series of missiles
 
poor indian pilots were maligned....

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this isnt objectively true, while India has built an underperforming engine, they've built one! Naturally, when improving you avoid the previous mistakes and errors etc. Look at the story behind the python series of missiles
Semantics dude. It's you who was arguing the line of developing, manufacturing, and deploying a combat jet engine en masse. The fact that india has built 1 engine doesn't mean they're more advanced in engine development than Türkiye, nor does it mean that Türkiye is more advanced given its extensive experience of manufacturing western engines under license. If results is all that matters, neither country has anything to show for it.
 
Semantics dude. It's you who was arguing the line of developing, manufacturing, and deploying a combat jet engine en masse. The fact that india has built 1 engine doesn't mean they're more advanced in engine development than Türkiye, nor does it mean that Türkiye is more advanced given its extensive experience of manufacturing western engines under license. If results is all that matters, neither country has anything to show for it.
so lets get this straight,

India has developed, tested and ran its own engines, the kaveri being the third iteration(?) is at the same level as Turkiye whos design is still on paper...

gotcha, i cant argue that then, lets see what happens in the next decade...
 
so lets get this straight,

India has developed, tested and ran its own engines, the kaveri being the third iteration(?) is at the same level as Turkiye whos design is still on paper...

gotcha, i cant argue that then, lets see what happens in the next decade...
No, I'm not talking about technical capabilities, and I don't know how you'd go about objectively comparing that, does either country have single crystal blade manufacturing, for example? I don't know, sure you can argue that india is one step ahead in the fact that they built one engine. All I'm saying is neither country has anything to show for it - no credible engine. I'm sure both countries could eventually design and produce their own engines.
 
They have 80 million people.

Because we can triangulate India between Turkey and China


China represents vast human resource and organization India can only dream of.

Turkey with 80 million simply represents superior strategy and people intelligence, India has a ceiling in terms of what it can deliver and even potentially absorb.

Right now India should be a major seller of military aircraft to the third world, it is Pakistan who holds that position instead.

So let's not assess India relative to others, let's just all agree they have a big GDP and are Powerful...no further questions please
Can India and Turkey develop excellent military turbofan engines? I don't know.

The Chinese adhere to a concept: "Pressure equals motivation." The greater the pressure, the greater the motivation; the less the pressure, the less the motivation.

When we urgently need something but cannot purchase it, the motivation for independent research and development increases infinitely. Conversely, if we can easily purchase it, the motivation for independent research and development decreases infinitely.

In the 1990s, the "Galaxy Incident" led to China's urgent need for a satellite navigation system. Europe's "Galileo Project" humiliated China again. Thus, the BeiDou satellite navigation program was born.

The emergence of the American F-22 made it impossible for the Chinese military to achieve the "eight fighter jets for one firing opportunity." Thus, the J-20 fighter jet project emerged.

There are many such examples...

However, there are also many negative examples.

Regardless of the struggle between China and the US, the US has not prohibited Microsoft from providing the Windows operating system to China. Therefore, although China has developed many domestically produced PC operating systems, none of them have achieved widespread market adoption. Android remains widely popular in China to this day. HarmonyOS only began to be promoted after the US sanctioned Huawei. Even now, many application software vendors still refuse to adapt to HarmonyOS. As for PC operating systems, the number of vendors adapting to its ecosystem is even smaller. ------ This is a classic case of insufficient pressure.

India and Turkey face the same problem.

If their pressure is insufficient, their own engine-like plans cannot succeed. Or rather, their success depends on the amount of pressure they face.

===================================================

The Development Process of China's Military Turbofan Engines:

Initially, it was handled independently by the engine research institutions under various aircraft manufacturers. For example, CAC, SAC, and XAC each had independent turbofan engine research and manufacturing institutions. However, none of these institutions achieved significant results. At that time, we could purchase relatively good turbofan engines from Russia/Ukraine, etc. This meant we didn't face much pressure.

Later, with the continuous decline of Russia/Ukraine and their technological lag, while the US and Europe continued to advance, the gap widened. China urgently needed better products. But Russia was unwilling to share. We also couldn't purchase advanced turbofan engines from the US and Europe. The pressure increased dramatically.

Therefore, China reorganized all the scattered turbofan engine-related institutions, establishing AECC. AECC coordinated and managed all affairs. This greatly increased our capabilities. The result was a continuous emergence of many new technologies…

===================================================

The May 7th air battle between India and Pakistan was originally an excellent opportunity to increase industrial pressure and stimulate industrial development. By publicizing this "humiliating event," the entire nation and people would be mobilized to fully support the rise of India's independent military industry. This intense pressure would provide the entire Indian military industry with massive R&D resources (funding, talent, etc.).

However, Indian politicians used the opposite propaganda...
 
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so lets get this straight,

India has developed, tested and ran its own engines, the kaveri being the third iteration(?) is at the same level as Turkiye whos design is still on paper...

gotcha, i cant argue that then, lets see what happens in the next decade...
But why do you not factor the time at which things take to get there.

Removing the time variable in a military context ?
 
Semantics dude. It's you who was arguing the line of developing, manufacturing, and deploying a combat jet engine en masse. The fact that india has built 1 engine doesn't mean they're more advanced in engine development than Türkiye, nor does it mean that Türkiye is more advanced given its extensive experience of manufacturing western engines under license. If results is all that matters, neither country has anything to show for it.
India has built PTAE-7/W, STFE Manik and HTFE-25 and tested it with afterburner. Kaveri and KDE are what most people talk of. Then there is a turboshaft under testing named HTSE-1200.

What makes you think India hasn't been license manufacturing foreign jet engines? Try spending some time on HAL's website and the engines they offer.

This is what false equivalence looks like.
No, I'm not talking about technical capabilities, and I don't know how you'd go about objectively comparing that, does either country have single crystal blade manufacturing, for example?
Lmao thats ignorance. GTRE and HAL have been showcasing nearly all components they make inhouse and that includes SCTBs.
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So does Türkiye.
We'd like to see
 
India has built PTAE-7/W, STFE Manik and HTFE-25 and tested it with afterburner. Kaveri and KDE are what most people talk of. Then there is a turboshaft under testing named HTSE-1200.

What makes you think India hasn't been license manufacturing foreign jet engines? Try spending some time on HAL's website and the engines they offer.

This is what false equivalence looks like.

Lmao thats ignorance. GTRE and HAL have been showcasing nearly all components they make inhouse and that includes SCTBs.
View attachment 179509View attachment 179510View attachment 179511View attachment 179512

We'd like to see
Talking about ignorance, Google is your friend, have a look at Turkey's single crystal blade tech, I ain't gonna spoon feed you. Great, amazing indian tech, why aren't you tejus flying with your own engine then? why are you begging the likes of France to help you?
 
Talking about ignorance, Google is your friend, have a look at Turkey's single crystal blade tech, I ain't gonna spoon feed you.
There's a difference between turbofan for fighter jets and turboshaft for helicopters 🤷🏻

So far I haven't seen any SCTBs for afterburning turbofans from them, do share if you have.

Great, amazing indian tech, why aren't you tejus flying with your own engine then?
Kaveri with original afterburner didn't deliver desired thrust numbers, so KDE got built for Ghatak UCAV and is being tested right now. While original Kaveri is being experimented with a new after burner.
why are you begging the likes of France to help you?
Begging? Safran isn't IMF or World Bank whom we're begging for half a billion dollar loans. We're collaborating to make a 5th gen engine together something neither have as of now, for high thrust engines to power heavier aircraft like AMCA and so on.
 
There's a difference between turbofan for fighter jets and turboshaft for helicopters 🤷🏻

So far I haven't seen any SCTBs for afterburning turbofans from them, do share if you have.


Kaveri with original afterburner didn't deliver desired thrust numbers, so KDE got built for Ghatak UCAV and is being tested right now. While original Kaveri is being experimented with a new after burner.

Begging? Safran isn't IMF or World Bank whom we're begging for half a billion dollar loans. We're collaborating to make a 5th gen engine together something neither have as of now, for high thrust engines to power heavier aircraft like AMCA and so on.
Right, so you can't make an engine by yourself, you're begging Safran. The same way you "collaborated" with Dassault, LockMart, IAI to help you make your tejus?
 
Right, so you can't make an engine by yourself, you're begging Safran. The same way you "collaborated" with Dassault, LockMart, IAI to help you make your tejus?
Even if true, who's collaboration yielded Mk2 and is taken for AMCA or RPSA? 🤔
We can make an engine ourselves, but it will take a longer time, maybe twice as much. Better collaborate to compress timelines.
 

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