France confirms India’s interest in Rafale F5, potential first export customer

hussain0216 said:
The indians could have had this deal at least 15-20 years ago

The indians dithered like crazy, trusted that Tejas would be some sort of super plane, Amca would be flying, Su57, Kaveri etc etc etc

Tejas is a dud
AMCA is still on paper and without help would be Tejas Mark 2
They have no engine
SU57 is questionable


So they wasted about 20 years


So now Tejas is facing endless delays and questionable quality

They are trying to get Tejas 2 off the ground

AMCA simply isn't going to be ready without external support

And they have no engine



So out of sheer desperation and lack of options, Mother India has spread her legs for France and said 'take what you want and give us what we need'


So for a massive sum

India will buy a engine - this is not a joint development, why would France need India to make a engine?


India will get some manufacturing but let's be realistic how much will France really give to India?

India is desperate and France is happy
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Not to mention, how much of those $$$ will end up in people's pockets on both side. I remember in the first Rafale deal there were allegations of corruption on Modi govt. But yeah, this deal makes Tejas done and dusted (for now at least). Still we don't know the details of how much ToT will happen and India will produce. India is just doing now what Pakistan did with China for producing JF-17. Ironically Indians mocked Pakistan for it and now they are doing the same.
 
Samurai said:
Not to mention, how much of those $$$ will end up in people's pockets on both side. I remember in the first Rafale deal there were allegations of corruption on Modi govt. But yeah, this deal makes Tejas done and dusted (for now at least). Still we don't know the details of how much ToT will happen and India will produce. India is just doing now what Pakistan did with China for producing JF-17. Ironically Indians mocked Pakistan for it and now they are doing the same.
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Also AMCA was never going to happen

Through this path, AMCA could possibly be ready in 10 years, if they use the new engine and get support from France

Again Pakistan will need to be awake and ready and plan accordingly

India was humiliated last year and they have as usual thrown money at their humiliation and gone on a spending spree


We need to note what they have so we can counter it, their is nothing more dangerous then a delusional enemy
 
hussain0216 said:
It is indeed dangerous however, let's be clear

The Indians are suckers and paying exorbitant amounts, BUT this will give them a engine and they will get Rafael's


The Rafael is great plane, the Indians just messed up and had very poor tactics


So Pakistan will have to work out how to counter this threat, we cannot be complacent
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I am not sure that they will get the "engine" the way that they really want to, but that is me.

The answer to the expansion of the Rafale fleet is the J-35AE, which should hopefully be with Pakistan within the next 3-4 years(ie before or close to when the new Rafales turn up ).

The J-35AE will allow the PAF to go hunting for Rafales inside Indian airspace as the IAF has decided to stay outside of the reach of the J10CE and focus on SOW's instead.
 
Ali_Baba said:
I am not sure that they will get the "engine" the way that they really want to, but that is me.

The answer to the expansion of the Rafale fleet is the J-35AE, which should hopefully be with Pakistan within the next 3-4 years(ie before or close to when the new Rafales turn up ).

The J-35AE will allow the PAF to go hunting for Rafales inside Indian airspace as the IAF has decided to stay outside of the reach of the J10CE and focus on SOW's instead.
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Yes we should get the Chinese 5th generation fighter planes.

But I still believe the J-10CE is a great plane as well.
 
hussain0216 said:
Great deal

For France

They are milking the Indians,

The indians are completely cornered and option less and France has taken the opportunity to milk the Indian cow


The indians will be paying through their nose for decades
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Who’s milking who! We will see it again once Pakistan back to economic turmoil phase of the cycle.
 
This agreement was likely made possible because Safran fully cooperated with India on the development of Indian turbofan engines. In essence, France gave up its golden goose in order to save a burning henhouse.
 
جوبا said:
Is the program still on after the dubai crash? I thought that was the final nail in the coffin
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There is too much riding on prestige but importantly they still need a low end point defense system to sit in their hundreds of Mig-21 hangars along with actually proving out an end to end local support ecosystem unlike their CKD Su-30s which still rely on Russia for many critical parts.

The engine so far is the critical liability - but even with that gone they need another 4-5 years to get full scaled maturity across all local manufacturing.

I really am not sure what the situation is with getting the M-88-4E into the Tejas Mk2 but that would solve massive headaches with the Rafale build in country. Probably if the Dassault reliance - Dassault Tata deal go through they operate with better accountability than HAL or other PSUs. Moreover, Dassault will push for actual performance since they will have their own reputation involved here especially since May 2025.

The C-295 program is currently hitting milestones ahead of schedule, proving private sector viability. Rafale offsets are already functioning with Tata producing tail cones/fuselages efficiently for global supply chains.

Compare to this that Su-30MKI took decades to reach "raw material" manufacturing phases, and even then, availability struggles around 45-55% due to reliance on Russia and slow HAL internal processes.

The biggest advantage this deal brings however is NOT that the Rafale is a potent fighter but that its being pushed on the private sector. There is a severe shortage of "job-ready" manufacturing talent in India and less of these not of the desi "Let it be" mentality. Private JVs solve this by sending staff to France for training (cultural reprogamming), whereas PSUs rely on the same "all izz well".
 
Big difference between build and assemble.

We all can buy pc parts and assemble a pc but none of us can make the parts and chips etc and build it.
 
Muji.Iqbal said:

India to make Rafale jets with France in boost to defence ties, Macron says​

Reuters Published February 19, 2026 Updated about 2 hours ago

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France’s President Emmanuel Macron speaks with media after attending the AI Impact Summit in New Delhi on February 19, 2026. — AFP
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France and India are entering a new era of defence cooperation with plans to jointly produce Rafale fighter jets as well as helicopters, French President Emmanuel Macron said on Thursday, adding France also hopes to sell more submarines to India.

India’s expected order for another 114 Rafales is a “new step forward” in defence ties between the two countries and France hopes to see this replicated with submarines as well, Macron told reporters at the end of a three-day visit to India.

“On Rafale, what we want to do is expand. India confirmed a few days ago its willingness to command a new bunch of Rafales … 114 … and to co-produce in India,” Macron said.

The Defence Acquisition Council of India’s defence ministry last week gave initial clearance to acquire 114 more Rafale jets for the air force, besides other planes and missiles, months after the worst fighting in decades between India and Pakistan.


So far, India has purchased 36 Rafales for its air force and ordered another 26 marine versions of the jet for the navy.

Details of the Rafale deal, including plans for co-production, expected to be sealed after technical and commercial negotiations, are yet to be made public.

Indian media reports have said that the 114 jets manufactured by Dassault Aviation are expected to cost 3.25 trillion Indian rupees ($35.65 billion).

They have also reported that up to 90 of the 114 jets could be produced in India with a joint venture partner who is yet to be identified.

“Rafale is absolutely key,” Macron said. “I hope we will do it on submarines. We offered additional capacities.”

The Indian navy operates six French Scorpene submarines and local media reports say there are plans to order more.

On Tuesday, Macron and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced the first H125 helicopter assembly line, made in India by a joint venture between Airbus and Tata Advanced Systems, as well as a plan to jointly produce Hammer missiles in India, by Safran and India’s state-owned Bharat Electronics.

Rafale jets flown by the Indian Air Force were in the spotlight during the four-day conflict between Pakistan and India in May 2025.

In the immediate aftermath of the conflict, Pakistan said it took down six Indian fighter jets during the conflict, including the Rafale. New Delhi acknowledged “some losses” during the conflict but denied losing six jets.

Months later in September, PM Shehbaz — during a United Nations General Assembly speech — said that the Pakistan Air Force turned “seven of the Indian jets” into scrap and dust.

www.dawn.com

India to make Rafale jets with France in boost to defence ties, Macron says

Says India’s expected order for another 114 Rafales is a “new step forward” in defence ties.
www.dawn.com
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make or assemble?
 
LC150 said:
make or assemble?
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The French would be the last to sell their core tech blueprints to a possible future competitor in the scene of military sales.

If the Russians don't help india with aerospace tech, no one will.
 
LC150 said:
make or assemble?
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These are not mutually exclusive. Assembly is just one of the final steps of the manufacturing process. It is not like Dassault is presently manufacturing every single component that goes into the Rafale.

As for the India order, there would be some minimum localisation threshold that would be specified when the contract is signed. So, some components would have to be manufactured locally in India. Others would be imported and then the planes would be put together and tested in India before handing them over to the IAF.

Obviously, this is not sufficient for India to build a knock-off Rafale on their own, but it will force some technology and processes to be absorbed by the defence production ecosystem in India.
 
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