Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

We have gone through this many times over, with FACTS, its was the project of the GHQ lot, they came in with this proposal which got rejected by the IK cabinet, they finially managed to get it passed via their form 47 so called government. And that is THE reality check.
Khuda ka Khauf kero yaar, Ramzan may inta jhoot mat boolo. IK himself admitted to resettling TTP. It was the his Federal Government which initiated this.

“What happened was that after a Kabul fell to the Taliban last August the the Pakistan Taliban were asked by the Afghan Taliban to go back into Pakistan and … that was a great time for us … my government was already negotiating with them so that we would do a resettlement of these people because they were about 40 000 people which were moving into Pakistan amongst them about five to ten thousand fighters but their families toohe said.

PTI govt was trying to ‘resettle’ TTP in Pakistan: Imran Khan
Imran Khan Seals Deal With the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan

His TTP appeasement goes way back in 2013
PTI chief urges govt to allow opening of Pakistani Taliban office

No but keep drinking the Kool aid bro
 
No its not propaganda - its me standing fucking 3 feet away from an Afghan politician in PC Peshawar who while half drunk was claiming this. They aren’t your bloody brothers - they are a tribal angsty lot.
ok, so one drunk Afghan politician ? It means nothing to Pakistanis in KP and even if it was an entire Afghan govt saying it , it would still mean nothing. Afghans are a psychologically damaged nation due to 50 years of war which has completely shattered their society, leading to de evolution. Noone should pay attention to their ramblings. You will have heard people in Peshawar derisively call all Afghans Kabulyan and wonder when they will all go back ?

Afghanistan needs 50 years of peace to rebuild just to come back to the level they were at in 1975. This peace will also flow into Pakistan, just like war.

Lets get back to the goalpost - instead of shifting it. Countries recognized Israel as well while you know exactly what type of entity they are.
Why not apply that deeper analysis here too?
The Taliban under Mullah Omar arent the Taliban of today - the Taliban you recognized in the 90s also had you push and introduce Haqqanis and other folks to strengthen that “Taliban”.

This Taliban is NOT them, has different warlords and factions that include many of your own mistakes of “depth” through promotion of intermarriages but also fully anti-Pakistan elements.
Of course the Taliban evolved over time, losing and gaining people, ideas and tactics. That happens to every group of people. But I would disagree that the Taliban of today are hugely different from the 90s in terms of people. An example is Hibatullah Akhundzada and his deputies. They have all been part of the Taliban since the 90s. Sure your favorites Jalaluddin Haqqani is not there anymore and neither is Mullah Omar, but their sons are.
This isn’t a case of “oh lets go back and try what worked then” or “lets follow international norms”. This is a case of realizing an original threat for what it always was - and trying to manage a belligerent neighbor while having to manage another insurgency that is now transitioned to an ethnic angle with tacit support from elements of very large political party.
This is an erroneous mixing of separate issues.

  • This neighbor is now ruled by your former proxy the Taliban. They want recognition and an end to the proxy wars of the past. Since you are refusing to play ball, they are resurrecting old ghosts like reaching out to India, moaning about Durand Line and providing support to Pakistani terrorists, so as to apply pressure. All this will go away when you start playing ball.

    The Pakistani expectation that once the Taliban are in Kabul, they will obey Rawalpindi like good little boys reflected a very poor understanding of Afghan mindset and nationalism. It's what happens when foreign service professionals are sidelined by smart alec Generals.
  • The insurgency in FATA started out as a rejection of Mr Musharraf's overnight abandonment of jehadis and alignment with America. It has been mishandled by everyone except Raheel Sharif, resulting in not only the survival of the TTP but more importantly the complete loss of trust in the Pakistani state by the public of KPK.

    This TTP was on the ropes at the end of Raheel Sharif tenure, why was it not finished off permanently instead of Mr Bajwa bringing back these savages from their hideouts in Afghanistan and settling them again in KP ? People of KP never wanted these TTP animals.

    And please don't give me the "civilians have to takeover once the Army cleans an area" fazool baatein. SInce when are civilians empowered to do anything in Pakistan ? Never. What is the guarantee the Army won't continue running its own parallel and opposing policies ? None. And thats exactly what happened in KP post 2014.

    This issue is now compounded several times over by the failure of foreign policy in Afghanistan, where the Taliban now have an entire country and find these TTP/BLA useful in their current standoff with Pakistan. Now TTP/BLa no longer have to hide in Afghanistan.
  • The PTI is against the Army because of politics. PTI cannot stop any Army operation. This is Pakistan where the Army is all powerful. If you perceive the PTI's opposition to military operations as tacit support to the TTP, that would be incorrect. The PTI's opposition to military operations is because of the sheer destruction and displacement of previous kinetic ops that were later sabotaged by the Army itself, since it loves these jehadis as much as it hates some of them. We still have Pakistanis living in IDP camps from operations 10, 15 years ago. The PTI is reflecting the common thinking of the people of KP.
What you are witnessing in Pakistan today is what happens when a state's hollow foreign and domestic policy comes completely apart. Project Taliban, Project Imran, Project Hybrid farce, Project TLP, all failing at the same time, badly exposing their creators in GHQ.
 
Afghans are a psychologically damaged nation due to 50 years of war which has completely shattered their society, leading to de evolution. Noone should pay attention to their ramblings
so afghans are damaged.

their words are meaningless.

so who should we negotiate with, our shoes?
 
We have gone through this many times over, with FACTS, its was the project of the GHQ lot, they came in with this proposal which got rejected by the IK cabinet, they finially managed to get it passed via their form 47 so called government. And that is THE reality check.
this back and forth wont help. both stand responsible ( how much each side takes the blame is open to debate)

Imran and his party has never hidden his love and affection for Taliban, he used to start his protest marches from lal masjid. his party has been always against military operations.

as for the rehablitation of TTP, the then extablishment, specially General Faiz (all will be good while driniking green tea in Kabul ) and Imran Khan were on the same page, celebrating Taliban victory and breaking the shakles of slavery. Gen Bajwa was too obsessed with getting his extension and Imran Khan was a useful fool for him.

now civilians and armymen pay with their lives for all of this.
 
The solution is more of what is going on here. We have to raise the cost for the Afghan government itself.

None of this goes on without their tacit approval or looking the other way.

Absolutely

The Afghan will commit terrorism, suicide bombs etc

The question is what are they willing to pay to commit these acts of terrorism

We have gone easy on Afghanistan, and if turn the screws and start hurting them and bombing things they don't want bombed , then we are giving CONSEQUENCES to afghans for their actions and stupidity

It's time to expand the campaign beyond terrorist targets and start damaging the Afghan state for their stupidity
 
so afghans are damaged.

their words are meaningless.

so who should we negotiate with, our shoes?
seems like it ... yes.. your rehtorical question is not off the mark.

we are a confused nation. with a confused establishment
it has taken a swing on the opposite side from how General Faiz and disinterested Gen bajwa were running it.
our opposition (correctly ) mocks and criticises GHQ for its support for taliban and other sectarian terrorists in the past but after criticsing it forgets to explain why its avocating for the same terrorists and why its objecting to GHQ's change in policy (if the past was wrong).
 
I get you but I also believe hopelessness is a sin. Pakistan is bigger than some cucks in the ruling elite or in yk who or cavemen kunis on our west and gangu midgets on our East. Aint leaving our grounds.
Answer me this question with honesty and rationally where do you see this country in next, all is see is chaos and death, would you want ur children to grow up in such a mess?
 
Absolutely

The Afghan will commit terrorism, suicide bombs etc

The question is what are they willing to pay to commit these acts of terrorism

We have gone easy on Afghanistan, and if turn the screws and start hurting them and bombing things they don't want bombed , then we are giving CONSEQUENCES to afghans for their actions and stupidity

It's time to expand the campaign beyond terrorist targets and start damaging the Afghan state for their stupidity
the cat is out of the bag, their ministers are openly threatening Pakistan of grave pain and suffering .. meaning they will open a wholesale season of suicide bombings and they are not even hiding their support of TTP.
 
Khuda ka Khauf kero yaar, Ramzan may inta jhoot mat boolo. IK himself admitted to resettling TTP. It was the his Federal Government which initiated this.

“What happened was that after a Kabul fell to the Taliban last August the the Pakistan Taliban were asked by the Afghan Taliban to go back into Pakistan and … that was a great time for us … my government was already negotiating with them so that we would do a resettlement of these people because they were about 40 000 people which were moving into Pakistan amongst them about five to ten thousand fighters but their families toohe said.

PTI govt was trying to ‘resettle’ TTP in Pakistan: Imran Khan
Imran Khan Seals Deal With the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan

His TTP appeasement goes way back in 2013
PTI chief urges govt to allow opening of Pakistani Taliban office

No but keep drinking the Kool aid bro

You blaming me for something you are blatantly doing shamelessly! Get hold of yourself will yea!




# In October 2021 negotiations with the Hafiz Gul Bahadur group began as a prelude to behind-the-scenes talks with the TTP.

# On November 9, 2021, the TTP announced a unilateral one-month ceasefire and demanded the release of 200 of its militants.

# On November 29, the TTP extended a ceasefire by 10 days, but on December 10, 2021, called it off, claiming Pakistan had not fulfilled the conditions. The TTP also announced an increase in attacks. Similarly, the Hafiz Gul Bahadur group also intensified its attacks.

# During the roughly six-week negotiations no TTP militant with a proven record of heinous crimes was released. No compensation was paid either, except the release of a few dozen alleged TTP-linked militants facing minor charges.

# When Imran Khan mentioned the negotiations in an interview with a Turkish media outlet, he had referred to talks with the Hafiz Gul Bahadur group, not the TTP.

# The PM was only “informed” about the proposed actions on TTP, only after General Faiz Hameed as ISI chief had prepared a summary of the plan, gotten it approved by President Arif Alvi. PM Khan had little option in publicly disowning the ISI-led process with the TTP.

# Imran Khan’s government ended on April 9, 2022.

# On April 28, the TTP unilaterally announced a ceasefire for an indefinite period after Pakistani planes allegedly bombed TTP and Hafiz Gul Bahadur group locations.

# On June 22, 2022, federal minister Rana Sanaullah told media that a high-level national security meeting, attended by Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif, and military leadership, decided that negotiations with the TTP would be conducted within the constitutional framework.

# On 7th July 2022, Rana Sanaullah revealed that the Parliamentary Committee on National Security had unanimously supported negotiations with the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP).

It is worth considering that during the PDM’s tenure, several Pakistani official delegations visited Afghanistan to negotiate with the TTP. It was also during this period that the decision to repatriate TTP militants was made, and they returned to Pakistan – under the summary that General Faiz had gotten signed by President Alvi.

It was indeed Murad Saeed and a few other PTI leaders who led the public protest against TTP “settlers” in Swat and Shangla and eventually forced them to leave the region.




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Resettlement of TTP fighters was Gen Bajwa’s idea, says Mazari


as for the other side:


Pakistan's Nawaz Sharif seeks Taliban talks despite attacks​

    • Published
      29 January 2014
 
Absolutely

The Afghan will commit terrorism, suicide bombs etc

The question is what are they willing to pay to commit these acts of terrorism

We have gone easy on Afghanistan, and if turn the screws and start hurting them and bombing things they don't want bombed , then we are giving CONSEQUENCES to afghans for their actions and stupidity

It's time to expand the campaign beyond terrorist targets and start damaging the Afghan state for their stupidity



NEED to bomb ALL key afghan civilian infrastructure sites and places holding their food and water supplies. Also need to bomb afghan hospitals and medical centres that are treating terrorists.
 
Almost hurts to agree on this. What times are we in that even Bajwa seems better
Bajwa was simply coasting off Raheel Sharif achievements. He spent his tenure on Project Imran and trying to get an extension, neglecting the anti-terrorism ops because he believed, like other GHQ fools, that the Taliban's victory in Kabul would solve all problems on the western border. Now GHQ is clueless on what to do.
 
this back and forth wont help. both stand responsible ( how much each side takes the blame is open to debate)

Imran and his party has never hidden his love and affection for Taliban, he used to start his protest marches from lal masjid. his party has been always against military operations.

as for the rehablitation of TTP, the then extablishment, specially General Faiz (all will be good while driniking green tea in Kabul ) and Imran Khan were on the same page, celebrating Taliban victory and breaking the shakles of slavery. Gen Bajwa was too obsessed with getting his extension and Imran Khan was a useful fool for him.

now civilians and armymen pay with their lives for all of this.

There is no back and forth, Taliban has always been the project GHQ. So hold your own sh|t and learn to live with it.
 

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