HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[Oscar]

More than 10 million dollars repair cost is minor issue?

Hey, they like to flex their pockets - which are deep.

 

[Vkdindian1]

While none of these are valid - having 3 losses over the life of what is an unused aircraft does ask for a root cause analysis - does it not?

Wouldn’t call it unused. It has seen extensive flying from its development to one squadron where it is flying like any other fighter. I don’t know if flying hours data is available in open domain but it must be like any other squadron where they get hero hours based on the serviceability.

Root analysis? Definitely yes and it appears that IAF has taken it seriously by grounding the fleet to get to the bottom of it.

 

[Oscar]

Wouldn’t call it unused. It has seen extensive flying from its development to one squadron where it is flying like any other fighter. I don’t know if flying hours data is available in open domain but it must be like any other squadron where they get hero hours based on the serviceability.

Root analysis? Definitely yes and it appears that IAF has taken it seriously by grounding the fleet to get to the bottom of it.

Yet its not going anywhere operational and from a small stint in 2020 where it was tried to be deployed in token numbers during the Galwan crisis it literally just operates within particular bases.

Heck this crisis would have been a great way to introduce it to combat if your claim on “operating like any other squadron” held any credence because on paper it has more suitable avionics and weapons fit than lets say Mig-29s or even be deployed in reserve on Jaguar bases.

Instead it was kept well away from the front lines and the IAF prefers pushing IN Mig-29Ks into the front instead of this so called “operational” jet.

 

[Ali_Baba]

but a joint-development and the PLAAF never had an intention to introduce it.

Small correction - ( and I am old enough to remember this ) - China was meant to also purchase an equal number of FC1 as Pakistan was as part of the original business case, but they backed out of it and then decided to develop the J10 as it then decided it wanted a bigger platform. It was too late for Pakistan to also walk away due to sanctions so PAF had to "suck it up" the PLAAF walking away as they had no choice on the matter.

 

[Deino]

Small correction - ( and I am old enough to remember this ) - China was meant to also purchase an equal number of FC1 as Pakistan was as part of the original business case, but they backed out of it and then decided to develop the J10 as it then decided it wanted a bigger platform. It was too late for Pakistan to also walk away due to sanctions so PAF had to "suck it up" the PLAAF walking away as they had no choice on the matter.

You are correct, but that all was initially at a time, the J-10 was far from safe ... but with it being in the end the more capable fighter and also fitting much better the PLAAF's needs, it decided in the end against it.

I remember there were also briefly claims, at least a few would be purchased as an aggressor squadron but hey, nowadays even the J-10 is "too small" and light for the PLAAF.

 

[Dark-Lord]

Yes for sure ... likely just some wet-gras!

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This image itself proves it was minor runway skid and aircraft run into mud patch

Anyways while $10 million repair costs show that there was considerable damage,
It is peanuts sum for a defence budget of $92 billion.

 

[ThoroughPro]

only guy he could find saying its a minor accident and not a loss

as long as hey can read the tail number and copy it on to another one, its a minor loss.

 

[Vkdindian1]

Yet its not going anywhere operational and from a small stint in 2020 where it was tried to be deployed in token numbers during the Galwan crisis it literally just operates within particular bases.

Heck this crisis would have been a great way to introduce it to combat if your claim on “operating like any other squadron” held any credence because on paper it has more suitable avionics and weapons fit than lets say Mig-29s or even be deployed in reserve on Jaguar bases.

Instead it was kept well away from the front lines and the IAF prefers pushing IN Mig-29Ks into the front instead of this so called “operational” jet.

Current FOC version is no where close to MK IA is. It could be just a little better than MiG-21 with better aerodynamics. Thats it.
Within those parameters it is unlikely to match the performance of a fully mature platform like MiG29s, M2000 etc.

Within the limited roles it is cleared, it is doing flying and that too in adequate quantity. Cross base deployment could be due to very specific requirements of support equipment. Probably, that wasn’t acquired in numbers that can give that flexibility. The reason could be imminent change to MKI A. That seems to be a different saga though.

 

[Shui]

Anyways while $10 million repair costs show that there was considerable damage,
It is peanuts sum for a defence budget of $92 billion.

I have seen many Indian flex about total GDP and annual military spending, that it could have spent on R&D, Education, Health care, infrastructure, and considering India is not on the manufacturing top value chain which means it's 1.4 billion population hard earned cash, what a dumb and childish mindset.

Same goes out to 50 billion rafale, 10 billion German conventional sub, 8 billion Isreal ammunition, you could otherwise invest in domestic R&D, wtf is this madness for a poor country like India.

 

[Vkdindian1]

Same goes out to 50 billion rafale, 10 billion German conventional sub, 8 billion Isreal ammunition, you could otherwise invest in domestic R&D,

The problem is mindset of those who control these things in India. Military and the development agencies have almost no say and are treated with disdain by the bureaucrats who control everything.

Bureaucracy doesn’t want to spend a single penny and the politicians wake up only after 2019, Galwan and 2025 like events. Military cries hard after such events and the only option is to buy stuff, off the shelf.

Kaveri is a very good example of this apathy. Political class has woken up just now and made an aero-engine a national mission. Same goes for many other projects.

We could have got so much more if we were self reliant and the spare money could go towards poverty alleviation. But here we are.

 

[Shui]

The problem is mindset of those who control these things in India. Military and the development agencies have almost no say and are treated with disdain by the bureaucrats who control everything.

Bureaucracy doesn’t want to spend a single penny and the politicians wake up only after 2019, Galwan and 2025 like events. Military cries hard after such events and the only option is to buy stuff, off the shelf.

Kaveri is a very good example of this apathy. Political class has woken up just now and made an aero-engine a national mission. Same goes for many other projects.

We could have got so much more if we were self reliant and the spare money could go towards poverty alleviation. But here we are.

If you are going for stopgap measure then you will always be going for stopgap because lacks funding and plan for domestic R&D, it will cause a series of problems, for eg, scientists and patriots would leave the industries knowing the country is not supporting domestic projects etc.

 

[harpy1]

I have seen many Indian flex about total GDP and annual military spending, that it could have spent on R&D, Education, Health care, infrastructure, and considering India is not on the manufacturing top value chain which means it's 1.4 billion population hard earned cash, what a dumb and childish mindset.

Same goes out to 50 billion rafale, 10 billion German conventional sub, 8 billion Isreal ammunition, you could otherwise invest in domestic R&D, wtf is this madness for a poor country like India.

India spends 2% of its gdp on military one of the lowest in the world
And that is genuine spend with clear break down of wages pensions and capex exclusive
Now
Our neighbours spend closer to 5% or 6% of their gdp and hide their capex and pensions salaries to officially keep figures at below 3%

India is transparent it is genuinely a low budget

 

[Shui]

India spends 2% of its gdp on military one of the lowest in the world
And that is genuine spend with clear break down of wages pensions and capex exclusive
Now
Our neighbours spend closer to 5% or 6% of their gdp and hide their capex and pensions salaries to officially keep figures at below 3%

India is transparent it is genuinely a low budget

Let's say China today decided to spent 70 billion USD on foreign stuffs with crazy price tag, no, it's a huge crime, I can say we are rich blah blah we have few trillion dollars foreign reserve but no, it's not how things should work, money is never enough, and 70 billion dollars is not peanut for any developing country, China included.

With Chinese purchasing power, 70 billion USD we can buy 600 brand new J-20 in fly away cost, 700 J-35, 70 055 destroyer, 10 Type 004 110K tons EMALS CVN...

 

[harpy1]

Let's say China today decided to spent 70 billion USD on foreign stuffs with crazy price tag, no, it's a huge crime, I can say we are rich blah blah we have few trillion dollars foreign reserve but no, it's not how things should work, money is never enough, and 70 billion dollars is not peanut for any developing country, China included.

With Chinese purchasing power, 70 billion USD we can buy 600 brand new J-20 in fly away cost, 700 J-35, 70 055 destroyer, 10 Type 004 110K tons EMALS CVN...

You are well aware that make in India is modi mantra

That's a why we have India aircraft carriers and nuke subs and destroyers
We are building AWACS and Sam's etc drones etc

The Achilles heel is air power or specically Tejas and Amca programmes delayed imo too late to address the falling numbers of fighters in air force

From 39 squadron in 1980 to 29 and soon down to 24 by 2030 when jags go
By 2035 18 when mirage 2000 and mig29 goes

So we have to buy off the shelf with some license build with some Transfer of technology..

This is where we are with Rafales unfortunately and until Tejas and Amca comes more such deals will continue to plug gaps

 

[onlinpunit]

as long as hey can read the tail number and copy it on to another one, its a minor loss.

Is that how our neighbors do !