Muji.Iqbal
Trusted Member
This Zionist loser is asking us? The Pakistani people and the Pakistani government defines Pakistani national interests.
Aftermath of the Iran-US war and its effects on proximities
- Thread starter Goenitz
- Start date
And how do the people and government decide national interests?
RescueRanger
Meme Lord
Who decides Israel's or America's national interests?
AZ_HighCountry
INT'L MOD
I'd certainly like to know.
Muji.Iqbal
Trusted Member
When they know what their country is doing, what is good and prosperous for their nation, obviously.
Distant_Observer
Trusted Member
LeGenD
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
There is difference of opinion in every country. However, many in the US continue to support Trump as he is having a string of successes. He virtually stopped illegal crossings from Mexico, encouraging private and foreign investment, teaching a lesson to cartels, controlling budget deficit, controlling housing prices, and he is now pushing the SAVE America Act. In foreign policy, he seized Venezuela and turned it around without destabilizing the region and he is now putting Cuba on notice. In the Middle East, the US forces have significantly degraded Iranian military capability in a few days and there might be a profound shift in ground realities of the region in the days ahead. Those hilarious comments might be fun to read but hold no value in this debate, bro. Naysayers are now silent on Venezuela, it will be rather hilarious to see them panting when Iran is settled.Look who's issuing threats.......after Trump declared the war a success. The comments section is hilariouswww.facebook.com
Sam Ssg
Registered Member
Thank you for the detailed and well-structured response. I genuinely appreciate the time and effort you put into explaining the complexities of the Iran–Pakistan relationship.
Just to clarify something first: I have actually been on this forum since around 2008–2009, but unfortunately my original account was misplaced over time, so I had to sign up again with a new ID. That is why it may appear that I have not posted much. In reality, I have mostly been an observer and reader, following discussions related to Pakistan’s geopolitical environment, defense matters, and developments within the Pakistani military.
Coming to your points, I agree that the relationship between Pakistan and Iran—especially involving the IRGC—has historically been best described as a managed rivalry with limited cooperation rather than a full strategic partnership. Many of the issues you mentioned—border tensions, mistrust, competing alliances, and sectarian dynamics—are indeed important realities shaping the relationship.
However, my original point was less about the political relationship and more about lessons that can be learned from modern conflicts, particularly in the conventional missile and drone domain.
Pakistan historically structured its missile program primarily around nuclear deterrence, which made strategic sense under the doctrine of minimum credible deterrence. Systems such as the Shaheen series, Ghauri series, and Ghaznavi were primarily designed as nuclear delivery platforms. Because they are intended to carry nuclear warheads, extreme pinpoint accuracy is not always the primary design priority. From what I have read, nuclear warheads have a destructive radius that can compensate for lower accuracy compared with precision conventional weapons. If I am mistaken, I would welcome correction from more knowledgeable members here.
Many of these earlier systems also rely on older navigation and guidance architectures, which means their conventional precision strike capability is not at the same level as modern precision-guided missile systems. That is why my argument is that Pakistan has historically done less work in high-precision conventional missile development compared to its nuclear delivery systems.
Given the rapidly changing geopolitical environment, Pakistan may need to invest more heavily in conventional missile capabilities with higher accuracy, greater speed, and improved lethality, including supersonic and eventually hypersonic systems.
Another point raised earlier by a very insightful member here was that Iran’s Revolutionary Guard missile and drone forces are currently surprising many observers, even though Iran’s conventional army, navy, and air force have faced serious pressure from technologically superior adversaries. This actually reinforces the broader lesson: missile forces and drones can serve as a strategic backbone even when other conventional assets are degraded.
From Pakistan’s perspective, this is an important lesson. For example, if—God forbid—in a future conflict our air bases were heavily targeted or the Pakistan Air Force suffered significant disruption, our conventional deterrence options could become limited very quickly. In such a scenario, the remaining strategic option would largely be nuclear deterrence, which is of course a very powerful deterrent but also an extreme one.
Therefore, strengthening the conventional domain becomes very important. Pakistan’s decision to establish a rocket force is a positive initiative in this direction, but it may need to be expanded and developed rapidly so that it can provide a strong and reliable conventional deterrent alongside the nuclear doctrine of minimum credible deterrence.
Ultimately, the goal is not to abandon Pakistan’s existing deterrence strategy, which has worked well, but rather to evolve it by incorporating modern realities of missile warfare, drone warfare, and precision conventional strike capabilities.
Thank you again for the thoughtful discussion. I always appreciate reading analytical perspectives from knowledgeable members on this forum.
Yeah , the other side of the coin. The other side of the story.
Currently the mindset in the entire western world is that as long as there are Muslims at the receiving end, the People will even bear the costs of Higher Fuel prices, and other losses. Such a huge Bogeyman had been created out of us , with decades of brainwashing
I see PNSC tankers being escorted.
The Black vessel i can identify as Pakistan National Shipping Motor Tanker Shalamar, which can carry 100,000 tons of oil. The red one also seems PNSC tanker due to the Logo on the Chimney / Funnel .
Thats roughly 200,000 Tons of oil Coming to Pakistan Under PN protection. Although Pakistan needs 1.8 Million tons of oil Monthly. Which means only 10 % of the required oil is coming under protection.
Although having sailed on similar ships myself, both ships seem to be empty as o can see the bulbous bow, and both are too high.
So i am not sure what PN is escorting.
The Black vessel i can identify as Pakistan National Shipping Motor Tanker Shalamar, which can carry 100,000 tons of oil. The red one also seems PNSC tanker due to the Logo on the Chimney / Funnel .
Thats roughly 200,000 Tons of oil Coming to Pakistan Under PN protection. Although Pakistan needs 1.8 Million tons of oil Monthly. Which means only 10 % of the required oil is coming under protection.
Although having sailed on similar ships myself, both ships seem to be empty as o can see the bulbous bow, and both are too high.
So i am not sure what PN is escorting.
Last edited:
Rational Philosopher
Trusted Member
This thread is intended for discussions related to what can be inducted/improved upon in Pakistan based on past, ongoing & future global conflicts.
Anything you see anywhere around thd world that you feel would be relevant & beneficial for Pakistan's context can be posted here.
I will start by contributing what I think is important for Pakistan based on what we've seen so far:
Ranked by importance (war survival, escalation control, and early-war effectiveness):
1. Hardened national command infrastructure and integrated warfighting command
2. Large-scale conventional long-range strike arsenal
3. Strategic drone warfare at scale
4. Airbase survivability and dispersed air operations
5. Persistent space-based ISR and military communications
6. Large-scale electronic warfare capability
7. Area-denial & offensive air power
8. Selective layered missile and air defense
9. AI-assisted command and decision systems
10. Industrial war production and stockpiles
---
1. Hardened National Command Infrastructure
Goal: Ensure national leadership and military command remain operational after a first decapitation strike.
Modern conflicts prioritize decapitation strikes against command centers and leadership nodes. Without hardened infrastructure, precision missile strikes can disable decision-making early in the conflict.
Required capabilities
• Deep underground national war headquarters
• Multiple redundant command nodes
• Mobile command centers
• Hardened communications infrastructure
Key requirement: A survivable national war command structure capable of operating even under sustained missile strikes.
---
2. Integrated Warfighting Command Network
Modern warfare increasingly relies on network-centric operations linking all branches of the military.
This structure must integrate:
• Air force operations
• Army missile and rocket forces
• Naval strike assets
• Space-based intelligence
• Cyber and electronic warfare
This creates a continuous targeting cycle:
Detection → Identification → Target prioritization → Strike → Battle damage assessment.
Without integration, advanced weapons cannot be employed effectively at scale.
---
3. Large-Scale Conventional Long-Range Strike Arsenal
Recent conflicts demonstrate the decisive role of mass precision strike capability.
Examples of modern long-range strike platforms include:
• Khorramshahr 4
• DF-17
Capabilities required:
• maneuverable re-entry vehicles
• cluster or runway-denial warheads
• rapid launch capability
• large inventory for saturation strikes
• de-centralised launchers + hardened silos
---
4. Strategic Drone Warfare
The war in Ukraine has demonstrated the effectiveness of cheap attritable drones in modern combat.
A representative example is the:
Shahed-136, Geran 2
Key characteristics:
•low cost
• long range
• simple navigation systems
• mass deployability
A complete drone ecosystem should include:
• Strategic strike drones
Range: 1,000–2,000 km
Used against infrastructure and airbases.
• Tactical loitering munitions
Used against armor, artillery, and frontline units.
• Decoy drones
Designed to exhaust air defense interceptors and radar capacity.
The critical principle is numerical saturation of defenses.
---
5. Airbase Survivability and Dispersal
Air forces remain decisive but increasingly vulnerable to precision missile strikes and are typically targeted during the opening phase of conflict.
Required survivability measures:
• hardened aircraft shelters
• underground aircraft hangars
• dispersed aircraft basing
• highway runway operations
• rapid runway repair units
These measures ensure that air power remains operational even after sustained strikes on main bases.
---
6. Area-Denial & Offensive Air Power
Air superiority does not always require destroying an enemy air force outright.
It can be achieved by denying safe operational zones.
Key tools include:
• long-range air-to-air missiles
• networked radar systems
• electronic warfare support
• integrated air defence & command networks
Area denial prevents sustained bombing campaigns and limits enemy air operations.
---
7. Electronic Warfare Forces
Electronic warfare has become a critical component of modern military operations.
During the war in Ukraine, extensive electronic warfare capabilities were used to disrupt:
• drones
• satellite navigation signals
• communications networks
Required capabilities include:
• GPS denial systems
• drone communication jamming
• radar deception
• datalink interception
Dedicated electronic warfare units should operate as mobile brigades supporting frontline formations.
---
8. Space-Based ISR and Military Communications
Modern military operations increasingly depend on space infrastructure.
Required space capabilities include:
• reconnaissance satellites
• persistent battlefield imaging
• secure military satellite communications
• navigation support systems
Space-based ISR enables faster targeting cycles and real-time battle damage assessment.
---
9. Selective Layered Air and Missile Defense
Comprehensive national missile defense is not realistic for most states due to cost and geographic limitations.
Instead, defense should focus on protecting strategic assets, including:
• national command centers
• major airbases
• key population centers
A layered defense structure typically includes:
1. long-range surface-to-air missiles
2. medium-range systems
3. short-range air defense
4. anti-drone defenses
Even advanced systems such as Iron Dome cannot fully stop saturation attacks.
---
10. AI-Assisted Military Decision Systems
Modern battlefields generate large amounts of operational data.
Artificial intelligence systems can assist with:
• satellite image analysis
• target identification
• strike planning
• logistics management
Organizations experimenting with such systems include:
• Israel Defense Forces
• United States Department of Defense
These systems function primarily as decision support tools for commanders.
---
11. Industrial War Production and Strategic Stockpiles (industry & economy)
Modern wars frequently become industrial conflicts of attrition.
Key requirements include:
• missile production capacity
• drone manufacturing scale
• artillery ammunition reserves
• spare parts stockpiles
• redundant production facilities
Sustained production capacity determines the ability to maintain combat operations during prolonged conflicts.
---
The future of high-intensity warfare increasingly favors militaries that combine:
• survivable command systems
• large long-range strike arsenals
• mass attritable drone forces
• space-enabled targeting
• strong electronic warfare capabilities
• industrial production capacity
@Tariq Habib Afridi @kimjongun @hasssanali8998 @313Ghazi @Panzerkiel @Hussain @hussain0216
Anything you see anywhere around thd world that you feel would be relevant & beneficial for Pakistan's context can be posted here.
I will start by contributing what I think is important for Pakistan based on what we've seen so far:
Ranked by importance (war survival, escalation control, and early-war effectiveness):
1. Hardened national command infrastructure and integrated warfighting command
2. Large-scale conventional long-range strike arsenal
3. Strategic drone warfare at scale
4. Airbase survivability and dispersed air operations
5. Persistent space-based ISR and military communications
6. Large-scale electronic warfare capability
7. Area-denial & offensive air power
8. Selective layered missile and air defense
9. AI-assisted command and decision systems
10. Industrial war production and stockpiles
---
1. Hardened National Command Infrastructure
Goal: Ensure national leadership and military command remain operational after a first decapitation strike.
Modern conflicts prioritize decapitation strikes against command centers and leadership nodes. Without hardened infrastructure, precision missile strikes can disable decision-making early in the conflict.
Required capabilities
• Deep underground national war headquarters
• Multiple redundant command nodes
• Mobile command centers
• Hardened communications infrastructure
Key requirement: A survivable national war command structure capable of operating even under sustained missile strikes.
---
2. Integrated Warfighting Command Network
Modern warfare increasingly relies on network-centric operations linking all branches of the military.
This structure must integrate:
• Air force operations
• Army missile and rocket forces
• Naval strike assets
• Space-based intelligence
• Cyber and electronic warfare
This creates a continuous targeting cycle:
Detection → Identification → Target prioritization → Strike → Battle damage assessment.
Without integration, advanced weapons cannot be employed effectively at scale.
---
3. Large-Scale Conventional Long-Range Strike Arsenal
Recent conflicts demonstrate the decisive role of mass precision strike capability.
Examples of modern long-range strike platforms include:
• Khorramshahr 4
• DF-17
Capabilities required:
• maneuverable re-entry vehicles
• cluster or runway-denial warheads
• rapid launch capability
• large inventory for saturation strikes
• de-centralised launchers + hardened silos
---
4. Strategic Drone Warfare
The war in Ukraine has demonstrated the effectiveness of cheap attritable drones in modern combat.
A representative example is the:
Shahed-136, Geran 2
Key characteristics:
•low cost
• long range
• simple navigation systems
• mass deployability
A complete drone ecosystem should include:
• Strategic strike drones
Range: 1,000–2,000 km
Used against infrastructure and airbases.
• Tactical loitering munitions
Used against armor, artillery, and frontline units.
• Decoy drones
Designed to exhaust air defense interceptors and radar capacity.
The critical principle is numerical saturation of defenses.
---
5. Airbase Survivability and Dispersal
Air forces remain decisive but increasingly vulnerable to precision missile strikes and are typically targeted during the opening phase of conflict.
Required survivability measures:
• hardened aircraft shelters
• underground aircraft hangars
• dispersed aircraft basing
• highway runway operations
• rapid runway repair units
These measures ensure that air power remains operational even after sustained strikes on main bases.
---
6. Area-Denial & Offensive Air Power
Air superiority does not always require destroying an enemy air force outright.
It can be achieved by denying safe operational zones.
Key tools include:
• long-range air-to-air missiles
• networked radar systems
• electronic warfare support
• integrated air defence & command networks
Area denial prevents sustained bombing campaigns and limits enemy air operations.
---
7. Electronic Warfare Forces
Electronic warfare has become a critical component of modern military operations.
During the war in Ukraine, extensive electronic warfare capabilities were used to disrupt:
• drones
• satellite navigation signals
• communications networks
Required capabilities include:
• GPS denial systems
• drone communication jamming
• radar deception
• datalink interception
Dedicated electronic warfare units should operate as mobile brigades supporting frontline formations.
---
8. Space-Based ISR and Military Communications
Modern military operations increasingly depend on space infrastructure.
Required space capabilities include:
• reconnaissance satellites
• persistent battlefield imaging
• secure military satellite communications
• navigation support systems
Space-based ISR enables faster targeting cycles and real-time battle damage assessment.
---
9. Selective Layered Air and Missile Defense
Comprehensive national missile defense is not realistic for most states due to cost and geographic limitations.
Instead, defense should focus on protecting strategic assets, including:
• national command centers
• major airbases
• key population centers
A layered defense structure typically includes:
1. long-range surface-to-air missiles
2. medium-range systems
3. short-range air defense
4. anti-drone defenses
Even advanced systems such as Iron Dome cannot fully stop saturation attacks.
---
10. AI-Assisted Military Decision Systems
Modern battlefields generate large amounts of operational data.
Artificial intelligence systems can assist with:
• satellite image analysis
• target identification
• strike planning
• logistics management
Organizations experimenting with such systems include:
• Israel Defense Forces
• United States Department of Defense
These systems function primarily as decision support tools for commanders.
---
11. Industrial War Production and Strategic Stockpiles (industry & economy)
Modern wars frequently become industrial conflicts of attrition.
Key requirements include:
• missile production capacity
• drone manufacturing scale
• artillery ammunition reserves
• spare parts stockpiles
• redundant production facilities
Sustained production capacity determines the ability to maintain combat operations during prolonged conflicts.
---
The future of high-intensity warfare increasingly favors militaries that combine:
• survivable command systems
• large long-range strike arsenals
• mass attritable drone forces
• space-enabled targeting
• strong electronic warfare capabilities
• industrial production capacity
@Tariq Habib Afridi @kimjongun @hasssanali8998 @313Ghazi @Panzerkiel @Hussain @hussain0216
Rational Philosopher
Trusted Member
I hope the thread won't be deleted/misplaced as promised by @RescueRanger as I think this kind of thread would be very beneficial to the forum.
Since the last one was I had to use AI to fill in the gaps of what I forgot but it's more comprehensive.
Since the last one was I had to use AI to fill in the gaps of what I forgot but it's more comprehensive.
RescueRanger
Meme Lord
Thank you for your reply, but to answer your question bluntly, there is a large forgive the pun "gulf" when it comes to trust between Pakistan ans IRGC on security and strategic affairs.
You cannot rightly expect Pakistan to upend all her political processes and national security concerns just to appease the "feel good" missile factor of a fistful of people.
Feel free to refer back to my closing remarks in my previous reply to you on this.
Once again, nice debate.
BeingHuman
Registered Member
RescueRanger
Meme Lord
Dear Mods please kidnly let this thread run its course.
Thank you in advance.
Thank you in advance.
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