Hangor Class Submarine | Updates & Discussion

[kimjongun]

Kilos though ancient but still deadly and armed with club missiles... With these crazy Clubs Kilo can wreck havoc in the sea.... it's so silent and deadly that even NATO calls it a BLACKHOLE....

Also do not underestimate U209s.... there's a reason they're still in service.....

U understand right that the Kilo class india operates are the ones built in 80s/90s and are not as capable as the improved kilo class (636.3) of the Russian navy , there is a lot of difference between the two , your kilo(Sindhugosh class) can be comparable to our agostas 70s or 90s(maybe).
and dont drag in u209s they are there to fill the numbers , IN is replacing subs with kalveri class due to better systems .

 

[Nimble]

U understand right that the Kilo class india operates are the ones built in 80s/90s and are not as capable as the improved kilo class (636.3) of the Russian navy , there is a lot of difference between the two , your kilo(Sindhugosh class) can be comparable to our agostas 70s or 90s(maybe).
and dont drag in u209s they are there to fill the numbers , IN is replacing subs with kalveri class due to better systems .

Indian Sindhughosh Kilos were given EKM 636 upgrade which I heard last.... I'm not comparing them with Hangor but even if they are comparable to Agosta 90 Bs then still they're deadly..... I mean to say PN can't say even today that Kilos aren't a threat to them in case if a naval war erupts between IN and PN.....

 

[kimjongun]

Indian Sindhughosh Kilos were given EKM 636 upgrade

This upgrade improved the antiship capability of the sindhugosh class and not its stealth characteristics so calling them as "Black hole" like how the Nato calls russias improved kilo is not correct

mean to say PN can't say even today that Kilos aren't a threat to them in case if a naval war erupts between IN and PN.....

Every naval vessel PN or IN has for each other is a threat for them ,
It is just that we dont list every system as an " IMMEDIATE THREAT " , IMO Kalveri class do come in this category .

 

[Oscar]

Indian Sindhughosh Kilos were given EKM 636 upgrade which I heard last.... I'm not comparing them with Hangor but even if they are comparable to Agosta 90 Bs then still they're deadly..... I mean to say PN can't say even today that Kilos aren't a threat to them in case if a naval war erupts between IN and PN.....

This isnt a thread about Kilos - whose capabilities aren't the reason they are still easily tracked by PN.

 

[kimjongun]

@Oscar is there any reason we didnt go for the Spanish S80 submarines?

 

[kimjongun]

Completely different class of subs

How so ? i havent read much on them but its just they are opted more for longer range patrols far from bases...

 

[T80UD]

How so ? i havent read much on them but its just they are opted more for longer range patrols far from bases...

Sorry I thought you meant for the SWATS program.

 

[Ibbi32]

the PN has 5 subs currently.

3 will remain.

8 will be inducted

5 of the fincantieri S800's will be inducted (most probably)*.

The winner (fincantieri) will then support the PN's original submarine program.

16 SSK's, all AIP equipped, supported by a longer term follow up order of more SSK's.

Sounds pretty well countered to me.

*fincanteri has a base at PMSTP alongside Damen. Only logical reason to set that up would be to provide long term support/design assistance to the PN for their platforms. S800 is a great boat, Fuel Cell AIP, sensors and systems from the U212. Oh and not to mention, the U212NFS was presented at IDEAS on offer to the Pak Navy.

The next gen sub program will build on that. Probably some of the most capable electric boats to exist will be used as the basis for the PN's submarine prog.

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I love to see we're getting new boats but i cant help but feel we are misplacing our priorities. 16 SSKs are good and all but the primary function of thses ships is area denial and limited conventional detterence. All this money into sub force and no talk of SLBM and SSNs which were promised decades ago. Unless they are really confident that 039s can do nuclear deterrence in which case we really need something better than babur 3 because at present our at sea nuclear deterrence is the worst of the 9 nuclear powers north korea and isreal are better than us.

Instead of this money into sub force why not redesign jcf with more vls cells. Why not procure more and better AD missiles for 054s why not do the needed refit for f22ps. Smash is great and all but without a decent AD to cover it its not fundamentaly gonna alter detterence.

Unless we are planning to actually start actively hunting indian CSGs and their submarines as well which i Frankly don't trust our babus to do i think submarine arm obsession needs to be taken down a bit.

 

[Ibbi32]

@Oscar is there any reason we didnt go for the Spanish S80 submarines?

Frankly do not trust navantia in this regard

 

[kimjongun]

Instead of this money into sub force why not redesign jcf with more vls cells. Why not procure more and better AD missiles for 054s why not do the needed refit for f22ps. Smash is great and all but without a decent AD to cover it its not fundamentaly gonna alter detterence.

At last AD can do so much , while submarines do provide you a better ability to strike then your surface ships (who will be the prime targets for indian destroyers and frigates ALL laced with brahmos)
We dont have the luxury to pump out ships nor do the capability to arm them with the latest missiles , our subs are getting old so this purchase is efficent to say the least.
However , Babus probably know how important securing triad is and the need for slbms(hopium)

 

[Ibbi32]

At last AD can do so much , while submarines do provide you a better ability to strike then your surface ships (who will be the prime targets for indian destroyers and frigates ALL laced with brahmos)
We dont have the luxury to pump out ships nor do the capability to arm them with the latest missiles , our subs are getting old so this purchase is efficent to say the least.
However , Babus probably know how important securing triad is and the need for slbms(hopium)

If we really were gonna leave our surface assets to die then why did we half ass our way into this naval program?. In last 10 years we procured atleast 12 major combatants with atleast 6 more to follow and fundamentaly tried to change surface fleet into a more active asset that it had never been before. Surely if subs were the only way to challenge IN why not order half the numbers and cancel programs like smash. We keep investing so much into ASW and submarine arm which is great but leaves the rest of navy vulnerable when i frankly dont see the peecieved need given that sub arm is where IN is weak

 

[Oscar]

@Oscar is there any reason we didnt go for the Spanish S80 submarines?

Flawed design that only recently has been "fixed".

 

[Yasser76]

Kilos though ancient but still deadly and armed with club missiles... With these crazy Clubs Kilo can wreck havoc in the sea.... it's so silent and deadly that even NATO calls it a BLACKHOLE....

Also do not underestimate U209s.... there's a reason they're still in service.....

No, the okd Kilos are possibly the noisest subs out there, there were thought to be silent for 80s standards....

209s and Kilos will need to come up often as they do not have AIP. PN finds tracking them very easy. Look......

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[ChineseTiger1986]

I love to see we're getting new boats but i cant help but feel we are misplacing our priorities. 16 SSKs are good and all but the primary function of thses ships is area denial and limited conventional detterence. All this money into sub force and no talk of SLBM and SSNs which were promised decades ago. Unless they are really confident that 039s can do nuclear deterrence in which case we really need something better than babur 3 because at present our at sea nuclear deterrence is the worst of the 9 nuclear powers north korea and isreal are better than us.

Instead of this money into sub force why not redesign jcf with more vls cells. Why not procure more and better AD missiles for 054s why not do the needed refit for f22ps. Smash is great and all but without a decent AD to cover it its not fundamentaly gonna alter detterence.

Unless we are planning to actually start actively hunting indian CSGs and their submarines as well which i Frankly don't trust our babus to do i think submarine arm obsession needs to be taken down a bit.

If Pakistan really needs the nuclear submarine, I think the best that China could offer on the table is the 4000 tons Type 041 nuclear battery/AIP hybrid submarine.

It has the endurance and speed very close to a traditional nuclear submarine, and it is very affordable for Pakistan navy not just to equip in an adequate number, also inexpensive for the maintenance.

Moreover, it is structurally similar to a Hangor class submarine.

 

[Falcon26]

If Pakistan really needs the nuclear submarine, I think the best that China could offer on the table is the 4000 tons Type 041 nuclear battery/AIP hybrid submarine.

It has the endurance and speed very close to a traditional nuclear submarine, and it is very affordable for Pakistan navy not just to equip in an adequate number, also inexpensive for the maintenance.

Moreover, it is structurally similar to a Hangor class submarine.

Has the Type 041 nuclear battery/AIP hybrid submarine moved beyond concept stage?