PTI freedom movement against Judiciary and Establishment: News, Discussion & Updates

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Usually I don't like to respond to anti-state scums but here you go.

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They wont - because the very emotional aspect of their cultism means they have 1 of five responses:

  1. "You’re a slave/boot polisher" Immediate ad hominem to avoid discussing how states actually function financially or diplomatically.
  2. "What about the other guys?" Deflecting to the corruption of the PDM/Establishment, as if two wrongs magically make their own foreign policy blunders correct.
  3. "True independence requires sacrifice" A romanticized view of suffering, usually cheered on by overseas supporters who won't actually be the ones paying triple for electricity and food when the economy defaults.
  4. "It’s a conspiracy against us" Refusal to admit their own political strategy failed; if things went wrong, it must be because the CIA, the Army, or the whole world colluded to stop them.
  5. "Burn it all down" The most dangerous one. The belief that if their leader isn't in charge, the state itself doesn't deserve to survive.
And that last point is exactly what you are seeing with the recent lobbying alongside Baloch separatists to strip Pakistan of its GSP+ status. You cannot claim to be the sole saviors of Pakistan’s economy while actively campaigning internationally to crash whatever is left of its textile industry and put millions of working class Pakistanis out of jobs. It exposes the fact that their crusade has nothing to do with actually wanting "justice," human rights, or the betterment of their fellow citizens. It is just scorched earth hypocrisy based purely on cultism: they demand the right to rule the country, but they are perfectly willing to burn it to the ground and starve its people if they are denied the throne.
 
They wont - because the very emotional aspect of their cultism means they have 1 of five responses:

  1. "You’re a slave/boot polisher" Immediate ad hominem to avoid discussing how states actually function financially or diplomatically.
  2. "What about the other guys?" Deflecting to the corruption of the PDM/Establishment, as if two wrongs magically make their own foreign policy blunders correct.
  3. "True independence requires sacrifice" A romanticized view of suffering, usually cheered on by overseas supporters who won't actually be the ones paying triple for electricity and food when the economy defaults.
  4. "It’s a conspiracy against us" Refusal to admit their own political strategy failed; if things went wrong, it must be because the CIA, the Army, or the whole world colluded to stop them.
  5. "Burn it all down" The most dangerous one. The belief that if their leader isn't in charge, the state itself doesn't deserve to survive.
And that last point is exactly what you are seeing with the recent lobbying alongside Baloch separatists to strip Pakistan of its GSP+ status. You cannot claim to be the sole saviors of Pakistan’s economy while actively campaigning internationally to crash whatever is left of its textile industry and put millions of working class Pakistanis out of jobs. It exposes the fact that their crusade has nothing to do with actually wanting "justice," human rights, or the betterment of their fellow citizens. It is just scorched earth hypocrisy based purely on cultism: they demand the right to rule the country, but they are perfectly willing to burn it to the ground and starve its people if they are denied the throne.
There was no lobbying agains GSP+ status, as has already been proven in this thread. It was fake news by PML-N that was then spread by other touts. Exactly how could anyone demand GSP+, an EU status, be revoked at an UNHCR meeting anyway ?

 
And that last point is exactly what you are seeing with the recent lobbying alongside Baloch separatists to strip Pakistan of its GSP+ status.
And exactly what you are doing is peddling fake news from PMLN media cell as "facts":
Multiple PML-N supporters and media outlets on social media platform X have been sharing two videos since March 25, showing Kasim Khan, son of PTI founder Imran Khan, allegedly demanding the suspension of Pakistan’s status for the Generalised Scheme of Preferences Plus (GSP+) trade scheme. However, he made no such demand.
Here is what he actually said:
Pakistan made binding commitments under the GSP+ framework to uphold the international human rights conventions are ratified, including the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights and the Convention against Torture. My father’s arbitrary detention, solitary confinement, the denial of medical care, the blocking of family visits, the trial of civilians in military courts; each of these violates those treaty obligations.
My brother and I are not political people. We never wanted to come before bodies like this one. But my father’s life demands that we take action. We cannot stand by as his health deteriorates and he is kept away from us. If the situation were reversed, we know he would not stop fighting until we were free. That is the very least we can do for him.
I rest my case:
As can be seen, at no point in the speech does he mention or even allude to the suspension of Pakistan’s GSP+ status with the EU.
Instead, the entire address is centred on human rights issues and appeals directed at the UNHRC and the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights to take notice of the situation.

@Watandar @SaadH @VCheng @Respect4Respect @Jango @Fatman17 @RescueRanger @PakSword
 
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There was no lobbying agains GSP+ status, as has already been proven in this thread. It was fake news by PML-N that was then spread by other touts. Exactly how could anyone demand GSP+, an EU status, be revoked at an UNHCR meeting anyway ?

They stuck on GSP....lol.... begging and favors our govt main principles.
 
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They stuck on GSP....lol.... begging and favors our govt main principles.

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If Pakistan didn’t lose its GSP+ status after the biggest yakki (mandate chori) in the country’s history, then it won’t lose it now, whether PTI or any other political party wants it to. It’s just social media propaganda meant to pressure the PTI leadership, just like when RAW agents were working at Sharif Khandan's sugar mills lol.
 
No one is suggesting bending backward or seeking a “good boy” pat on the head, but confusing loud slogans with actual independence is exactly why this mindset always crashes into a wall. Real sovereignty isn't about throwing tantrums at superpowers but knowing to do so only when you have the economic, technological, and institutional leverage to tell them no.

You think shouting at the US makes Pakistan independent, but an “independent” country doesn't have to go to the IMF every three years, beg for deferred oil payments, or export its citizens for cheap labor just to keep the central bank afloat. The people who actually weakened Pakistan's independence aren't the ones calling for pragmatic diplomacy, they are the politicians and cheerleaders who thought running a country on debt and defiance was a viable foreign policy.

Your comparison to the Gulf thread actually proves the point perfectly, and ironically, it only reinforces why people call this mindset a cult. You are angry at the Gulf for looking out for their own interests, angry at the US for doing the same, and angry at anyone who points out that Pakistan needs to operate pragmatically within that reality. You want a world that accommodates your feelings rather than a foreign policy that deals with facts. The Gulf countries actually have independence because they don't scream at superpowers because they quietly balance them, build leverage, and run economies that force the world to take them seriously.

That is the contradiction of a cult: demanding the swagger of a superpower while defending the financial decisions of a failed state. Slavery isn't understanding how leverage works in international relations. True slavery is being financially dependent on the world while living in a closed echo chamber where empty rhetoric is mistaken for bravery. If you want Pakistan to be truly independent, build an economy that doesn't need bailouts. Until then, diplomacy requires playing the hand you actually have, not the one your political messiah pretends you have.

This is trite. IK nor his supporters have ever wished for Pakistanis to go against the US. Pakistans economy is directly beneficial thanks to US trade and friendly relations. IK himself has said that and tried to have warm relations with Trump during his first stint.

What I’m replaying to is throwing all your self respect in the trash saluting a guy hated amongst the Muslim world for a Nobel peace prize. I mean self respect aside, this has never been an effective strategy. Bending over backwards and having no agency has not worked for Pakistan. Ever.

This “beggars can’t be choosers” horn PPP/PML N has player for years. It’s old and doesn’t reflect at all IKs views. The reality is whenever Pakistan’s leadership has bent backwards to the US there has been one common factor

It is usually a dictatorship or control of power by a sole authority much like Musharraf. They do it to keep their seat not for Pakistan. Don’t be fooled.

Dig deeper and you’ll see who really is anti Pakistan
 
They stuck on GSP....lol.... begging and favors our govt main principles.
GSP status is an easy sell for a lazy state. If you were to ask the textile industry in Pakistan, they complain about lack of consistent policies by the government, expensive electricity, poorly trained labor and poor infrastructure. All that requires hard work which few govts in Pakistani history have bothered to tackle.
 
They wont - because the very emotional aspect of their cultism means they have 1 of five responses:

  1. "You’re a slave/boot polisher" Immediate ad hominem to avoid discussing how states actually function financially or diplomatically.
  2. "What about the other guys?" Deflecting to the corruption of the PDM/Establishment, as if two wrongs magically make their own foreign policy blunders correct.
  3. "True independence requires sacrifice" A romanticized view of suffering, usually cheered on by overseas supporters who won't actually be the ones paying triple for electricity and food when the economy defaults.
  4. "It’s a conspiracy against us" Refusal to admit their own political strategy failed; if things went wrong, it must be because the CIA, the Army, or the whole world colluded to stop them.
  5. "Burn it all down" The most dangerous one. The belief that if their leader isn't in charge, the state itself doesn't deserve to survive.
And that last point is exactly what you are seeing with the recent lobbying alongside Baloch separatists to strip Pakistan of its GSP+ status. You cannot claim to be the sole saviors of Pakistan’s economy while actively campaigning internationally to crash whatever is left of its textile industry and put millions of working class Pakistanis out of jobs. It exposes the fact that their crusade has nothing to do with actually wanting "justice," human rights, or the betterment of their fellow citizens. It is just scorched earth hypocrisy based purely on cultism: they demand the right to rule the country, but they are perfectly willing to burn it to the ground and starve its people if they are denied the throne.

Nope. I very clearly replied and exposed the logical fallacy.

This is like saying you’re in bed with Israel if you attend a UN committee with them part of it.

Unless you genuinely believe IK or his sons support a separate balochistan we both know this is cheap political point scoring.

Now if you may please, I’m still waiting for an answer to my posts beyond “cultist!!”
 
GSP status is an easy sell for a lazy state. If you were to ask the textile industry in Pakistan, they complain about lack of consistent policies by the government, expensive electricity, poorly trained labor and poor infrastructure. All that requires hard work which few govts in Pakistani history have bothered to tackle.

Industrialists and skilled workers have left at a rapid place. IKs era was a renaissance in tech and startup funding.

It’s clear these are silly points for political point scoring since they can’t bring anything solid. Distorted versions of “yahoodi agent” and “Taliban khan”
 
There was no lobbying agains GSP+ status, as has already been proven in this thread. It was fake news by PML-N that was then spread by other touts. Exactly how could anyone demand GSP+, an EU status, be revoked at an UNHCR meeting anyway ?

Ahem - Yes - that makes it all right... :rolleyes:

Quoting that actually proves the exact point rather than refuting it. You can dress it up in the polite PR language of human rights, but when you go to an international forum and explicitly argue that Pakistan is violating its "binding commitments under the GSP+ framework," the only functional outcome you are asking for is the suspension of that trade status.
This is trite. IK nor his supporters have ever wished for Pakistanis to go against the US. Pakistans economy is directly beneficial thanks to US trade and friendly relations. IK himself has said that and tried to have warm relations with Trump during his first stint.

What I’m replaying to is throwing all your self respect in the trash saluting a guy hated amongst the Muslim world for a Nobel peace prize. I mean self respect aside, this has never been an effective strategy. Bending over backwards and having no agency has not worked for Pakistan. Ever.

This “beggars can’t be choosers” horn PPP/PML N has player for years. It’s old and doesn’t reflect at all IKs views. The reality is whenever Pakistan’s leadership has bent backwards to the US there has been one common factor

It is usually a dictatorship or control of power by a sole authority much like Musharraf. They do it to keep their seat not for Pakistan. Don’t be fooled.

Dig deeper and you’ll see who really is anti Pakistan
You are completely rewriting history to fit your current argument. You cannot claim "IK never wished to go against the US" when he built his entire post ouster political survival strategy on the Cypher narrative, literally accusing Washington of orchestrating a regime change conspiracy and whipping his base into a "Haqeeqi Azadi" anti-American frenzy. You don't get to run a scorched-earth, anti-US populist crusade at home and then play the "we just want friendly trade" card when it's convenient.

Second, you argue that bending backwards to the US is what dictators do to keep their seats. What exactly do you call PTI's current strategy? Your party's overseas wing has spent the last two years hiring DC lobbying firms, pushing US Congressional resolutions, and is now actively begging the new Trump administration to pressure the Pakistani military to release IK. You are literally asking the American "overlords" to intervene in Pakistan's internal politics so your leader can get his seat back. How is begging Washington to act as your political referee an example of "agency" or "self respect"?

Finally, "beggars can't be choosers" isn't a PDM slogan; it's a mathematical reality. You can complain about self respect all day, but self respect doesn't finance the national deficit or pay the import bill. The ultimate hypocrisy of your position is demanding absolute sovereignty in public rallies, while privately leveraging US politicians to fight your domestic battles. It proves the exact point: it was never about actual independence from the US, it was only ever about making sure the US backs your guy.
Nope. I very clearly replied and exposed the logical fallacy.

This is like saying you’re in bed with Israel if you attend a UN committee with them part of it.

Unless you genuinely believe IK or his sons support a separate balochistan we both know this is cheap political point scoring.

Now if you may please, I’m still waiting for an answer to my posts beyond “cultist!!”
No, your UN committee analogy is functionally backwards. Attending a broad, multi-nation UN assembly where Israel happens to be present is unavoidable international diplomacy. But Imran Khan's son didn't accidentally walk into a random UN assembly; he co-hosted an incredibly specific, targeted panel on human rights in Pakistan, and deliberately shared that highly curated platform with a vocal, active separatist.

You do not share a microphone on a specific, targeted issue with someone whose primary political goal is dismantling your country unless you are willing to legitimize their presence to amplify your own cause. Even if I don't believe IK or his sons want a separate Balochistan, it proves they simply don't care who they legitimize or what damage they do to the state's optics, as long as it hurts their political enemies in Rawalpindi.

As for wanting an answer beyond "cultist," I gave you one regarding the GSP+ status, which you conveniently ignored. If you go to Europe and explicitly argue that Pakistan is violating the "binding commitments of the GSP+ framework," you are asking for that framework to be suspended. There is no other logical outcome to that specific legal argument.

So the non-cultist answer you are looking for is this: you cannot claim the moral high ground of wanting to save Pakistan while actively lobbying to crash its primary export lifeline and put millions of working class textile workers on the street, just to punish the military for locking up your leader.

And exactly what you are doing is peddling fake news from PMLN media cell as "facts":

Here is what he actually said:

I rest my case:


@Watandar @SaadH @VCheng @Respect4Respect @Jango @Fatman17 @RescueRanger @PakSword
This is exactly the kind of naive, literalist defense that proves my point. You are arguing that because he didn't explicitly utter the exact words "please suspend the GSP+ status," he wasn't asking for it. That is not how international trade law or lobbying works.

When you stand in front of international bodies and explicitly state that Pakistan is violating its "binding commitments under the GSP+ framework," you are pulling the exact legal trigger that the EU uses to suspend that status. GSP+ isn't just a generic human rights award; it is a conditional trade tariff exemption. The only enforcement mechanism for violating its binding commitments is the revocation of those trade benefits. You don't bring up the specific framework of an economic treaty to a human rights body unless your goal is to threaten that treaty.

It’s like walking into a bank, telling the manager that a business is currently violating all the terms of its loan agreement, and then turning around and saying, "But I never literally asked you to cancel their loan!"

You can call it PMLN fake news all you want, but the mechanics of the speech are undeniable. He deliberately linked his father's imprisonment directly to the specific trade framework that keeps Pakistan's textile industry alive. Doing that while sharing a stage with a Baloch separatist isn't a plea for human rights and instead is a calculated threat to nuke the country's economy if the military doesn't release his father.

And lastly, tagging every other random member in your replies to try and perform as the aggrieved party doesn't make your argument any stronger. It just makes it look like you need an echo chamber to validate a deeply flawed defense.
 
What is telling about the Dawn fact check is how narrowly it frames the issue. It reduces everything to one technical question:

Did Kasim Khan literally say “suspend GSP+”?

Once that becomes the test, the bigger picture gets washed away.That is the narrowest possible reading of what happened, and it is exactly why the fact-check feels so evasive. The real issue is that he chose to appear at a forum specifically framed around Pakistan’s GSP+ obligations, invoked Pakistan’s alleged violation of those obligations, and used that framework to internationalize a domestic political grievance.

That matters because GSP+ is not just symbolic language about values or human rights. It is a conditional trade framework tied to compliance and scrutiny. So even if he did not literally say “revoke it,” he was still clearly trying to bring external pressure through a mechanism whose whole purpose is conditionality and consequences. Pretending that this was politically meaningless just because he avoided one exact sentence is wordplay, not analysis.

And this is also why the MAGA comparison is very valid.

These movements start treating politics as a closed emotional system where loyalty matters more than coherence, where every technicality becomes a shield for the in-group, and where grievance is constantly intensified through repetition. Once people are conditioned to believe that all institutions are illegitimate, all opponents are evil, and every escalation is morally justified, it becomes much easier for parts of the movement to normalize rhetoric that flirts with, excuses, or openly encourages violence. That is what makes this kind of politics dangerous.

At that point, the factual dispute almost becomes secondary. The deeper problem is the culture around it based on online discourse where the approved lines get repeated, the crowd rewards them, contradictions stop mattering, and more extreme rhetoric keeps getting absorbed into the movement’s moral universe. That is why the cult comparison fits, and that is why the MAGA parallel fits too. It is not just about denial or spin anymore since it is about a political identity structure that can start rationalizing increasingly reckless and dangerous behavior.
 
Ahem - Yes - that makes it all right... :rolleyes:

Quoting that actually proves the exact point rather than refuting it. You can dress it up in the polite PR language of human rights, but when you go to an international forum and explicitly argue that Pakistan is violating its "binding commitments under the GSP+ framework," the only functional outcome you are asking for is
Good grief Mister. There was never any demand by Qasim Khan about revoking the GSP status in that meeting. Neither could the UNHCR grant any such request.

If you bother to read that Dawn link, it lays out his remarks in detail. You have fallen victim to fake news because of your intense bias against PTI.

Else it is a fact that the Pakistani govt is committing human rights abuses, not just against Baloch people but also against opposition politicians and people are going to rightfully speak out about it at a UN meeting on human rights. The correct approach is to curb human rights abuses.
 
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