PTI freedom movement against Judiciary and Establishment: News, Discussion & Updates

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Look at Zulfikar Ali Bhutto in the 1970s. He had thousands of highly educated university students, lawyers, and urban professionals treating him like a literal savior. They completely ignored his autocratic crackdowns and massive contradictions just because he gave them a sense of defiance against the establishment. I have Yale educated people in the family who still have Benazir's and Bhutto's pictures on their wall next to their dead parents.

So when establishment cultists ask why so many PTI supporters are those that live abroad or educated I point to Modi. He has millions of highly educated IT professionals, doctors, and wealthy diaspora members living in the West who treat him like a flawless deity. They completely ignore his massive economic blunders or the destruction of democratic norms, and they immediately label any critic as a traitor or anti national.

People do not join these movements because they have carefully weighed every policy detail. They join because the leader gives them emotional relief. He turns their fear, humiliation, anger, or uncertainty into a simple story where they are the righteous camp, their enemies are the source of all corruption, and he alone can restore dignity.

In some ways the educated can be even more vulnerable because they are better at rationalizing contradictions. Once someone becomes emotionally invested in a leader, their mind starts protecting that attachment. They ignore facts that threaten the bond, reinterpret failures as someone else’s sabotage, and treat criticism as proof that the leader must be dangerous to the bad people. The leader stops being a politician and becomes a vessel for identity, pride, revenge, and hope.

A big part of it is also social belonging. People do not just believe alone. They believe together. Once they are inside a political tribe that constantly rewards loyalty and punishes doubt, the belief becomes self reinforcing. Every slogan gets echoed back, every criticism gets dismissed as propaganda, and every contradiction gets smoothed over by the group. At that point, people are no longer defending just a leader. They are defending their community, their self image, and their sense of meaning.

That is why arguments with these people often go nowhere. You think you are discussing policy or history, but they experience the conversation as a threat to identity. And when identity is threatened, the brain usually does not become more rational. It becomes more defensive. That is how intelligent, educated, articulate people can still behave in deeply cult like ways.
 
This mentality did not begin with PTI and will not end with it. Pakistan has seen the same cult-like attachment with Bhutto, Benazir, Nawaz, Musharraf and others, and even wealthy, educated societies are not immune to this kind of politics. These movements grow not just from lack of schooling, but from fear, insecurity, weak institutions, and the craving for a savior. Until that changes, people will keep mistaking loyalty to a leader for loyalty to the country.
All right wing/anti immigration and pro-racism movements in Europe and US adhere to same norms.

MAGA is just a worse form of it because they actually have educated people in power who are stupidly racist .

Take another case of Tech bros gone bad.....Alex Karp of Palantir and how he thinks they should shape the world
 
Because that is ALL THEY ARE! Brainwashed CULTISTS!

That is the part they never understand.
You can acknowledge the military establishment has made massive mistakes, committed excesses, damaged institutions, manipulated politics, and helped create many of Pakistan’s long term problems but none of that automatically turns Imran Khan into a strategic genius or his current movement into the answer.

Two wrongs do not make a right. But with PTI supporters, that basic logic just does not register anymore. The moment you criticize Khan’s recklessness, his slogans as policy mindset, or the fantasy that speeches can substitute for leverage, they immediately short circuit into the same script: “boot polisher,” “slave mentality,” “you support the establishment.” It is pure cult reasoning. They do not process criticism as analysis; they process it as betrayal.

That is why these debates go nowhere. You can concede real and serious wrongdoing by the military, and instead of engaging the actual point, they will either ignore it completely or twist it into proof that Khan was still right about everything. Their brains have been trained to flatten all complexity into one emotional binary:

either you are with the leader or you are a traitor.

Once politics becomes a core belief trait like that, reason stops working because identity protection takes over.

And that is also why your question was so damaging to them. It forced them into the real world of consequences. What would Khan have actually done in the 2000s, with the US at peak power, Pakistan financially dependent, and the post-9/11 environment completely stacked against weak states?

They cannot answer directly because the honest answer is obvious: he would either have done some version of the same thing every Pakistani government did, or he would have postured theatrically and gotten the country crushed economically and diplomatically. There is no magical third option where vibes, speeches, and “absolutely not” somehow overpower structural reality.

Now just look at what I wrote and see if their replies are anything other than the framework I just laid out earlier and now in this thread because they are INCAPABLE OF OTHER RESPONSES.

Even if you present a perfectly objective argument by condemning the military, calling out PML-N, and then analyzing Khan they will still ignore all of it and spin you into a "boot polisher." Because for them, this is no longer about finding political solutions....it is about protecting a religious level devotion to one man, and their brains have simply lost the ability to compute anything else.

Sir aap kab tak ye cult cult kartay rahay ge? This insult has gotten old.

Don't you realise everyone is just as much of a cult as PTI? There is a cult that believes Fauj is infallible, there is a cult that believes Nawaz Sharif would have made Pakistan an Asian Tiger and there is a cult that believes that Bilawal is a foreign policy genius. There is a cult that thinks Khadim Rizvi could just say no to foreign debt payments and there is even a cult that believes in Khilafat rule.

It has been roughly 4 years since IK left. Nothing to show for it but being 'stable' at rock bottom. If this is what passes as level-headed policy making then respectfully, I want the swashbuckling cricketer back, and I think the overwhelming majority did and thats how he got 180 seats despite sitting in jail.

Those 180 seats were the final say on this matter by the public and it was not respected. They give excuses like 'Oh IK would have destroyed Pakistan' but I think they are doing a fine job of it themselves.
 
Sir aap kab tak ye cult cult kartay rahay ge? This insult has gotten old.

Don't you realise everyone is just as much of a cult as PTI? There is a cult that believes Fauj is infallible, there is a cult that believes Nawaz Sharif would have made Pakistan an Asian Tiger and there is a cult that believes that Bilawal is a foreign policy genius. There is a cult that thinks Khadim Rizvi could just say no to foreign debt payments and there is even a cult that believes in Khilafat rule.

It has been roughly 4 years since IK left. Nothing to show for it but being 'stable' at rock bottom. If this is what passes as level-headed policy making then respectfully, I want the swashbuckling cricketer back, and I think the overwhelming majority did and thats how he got 180 seats despite sitting in jail.

Those 180 seats were the final say on this matter by the public and it was not respected. They give excuses like 'Oh IK would have destroyed Pakistan' but I think they are doing a fine job of it themselves.

Dude, Oscar just mentioned Army's faults over the years. No other educated groups in Pakistan other then PTI supporters blindly follow their leader. I personally see Military as lesser of the evil and only Military understands Pakistan's foreign policy. When you have a leader like Imran Khan who believed and so did his followers that Trump was his friend should be an indicator on how ill-informed he was.
 
Sir aap kab tak ye cult cult kartay rahay ge? This insult has gotten old.

Don't you realise everyone is just as much of a cult as PTI? There is a cult that believes Fauj is infallible, there is a cult that believes Nawaz Sharif would have made Pakistan an Asian Tiger and there is a cult that believes that Bilawal is a foreign policy genius. There is a cult that thinks Khadim Rizvi could just say no to foreign debt payments and there is even a cult that believes in Khilafat rule.

It has been roughly 4 years since IK left. Nothing to show for it but being 'stable' at rock bottom. If this is what passes as level-headed policy making then respectfully, I want the swashbuckling cricketer back, and I think the overwhelming majority did and thats how he got 180 seats despite sitting in jail.

Those 180 seats were the final say on this matter by the public and it was not respected. They give excuses like 'Oh IK would have destroyed Pakistan' but I think they are doing a fine job of it themselves.
But only one cult has grown large enough, and disruptive enough, that it has placed its own narrow leaders above the interests of the country itself, and does so intentionally.

It is completely okay with burning down what exists to rule over the ashes. It uses misery and chaos as a weapon, even if the collateral is the public.

This is not a fringe group like Khadim Rizvi, or any other cults that at least have limits to what they believe is acceptable against the interests of the country at large.
 
But only one cult has grown large enough, and disruptive enough, that it has placed its own narrow leaders above the interests of the country itself, and does so intentionally.

There is only 1 cult in Pakistan that is large enough and armed enough to break the
Country in half and get away with it.

It's the only cult that can do whatever it wants and get away with it, even their cult
leader has lifetime immunity.
 
It has been roughly 4 years since IK left. Nothing to show for it but being 'stable' at rock bottom. If this is what passes as level-headed policy making then respectfully, I want the swashbuckling cricketer back, and I think the overwhelming majority did and thats how he got 180 seats despite sitting in jail.
4 years is nothing in the grand scheme of national development or progress. That timeline moves in decades. Especially when you are starting off in a debt-ridden, no industry, terrorism-ridden cycle.

That stability you overlook, and steady but small progress, is exactly how nations grow, it is tough, long and gruely process to reach the desired outcome but, never fast & flashy. It is a very immature outlook on politics to focus more an aesthetics and rhetoric. I completely understand however why it would matter, you want someone to speak and act like someone that actually represents you, but at the end of the day policies and progress triumph over superficial imagery. Politics is toughing it out in the real world, not a video game.

Ironically, this same standard of limited time is not applied to your opponents but often cited as an excuse for your own party.
 
Side effects of black magic she did for Imran Khan.

God lord, this comes with the age, let's not give it any other twist, it's fricking common, my dad had it, my mum had it, i am gonna get it
 
Dude, Oscar just mentioned Army's faults over the years. No other educated groups in Pakistan other then PTI supporters blindly follow their leader. I personally see Military as lesser of the evil and only Military understands Pakistan's foreign policy. When you have a leader like Imran Khan who believed and so did his followers that Trump was his friend should be an indicator on how ill-informed he was.

I have mentioned Imran Khans faults as well countless times and see him as the lesser evil. Military has caused countless losses and disappointment.

Army supporters blindly follow whichever COAS comes along. It is not military job to understand foreign policy. They take an oath to not meddle on political affairs and they take this oath in front of a massive bust of the Quaid.
 
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