Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

[Master Chief]

Pakistan must seriously abandon its usual constrained and passive, pascifist mindset and start thinking more strategically to re-shape the region in our benefit in a sustainable way, instead of being timid and facing aggression from others. It's something we have to learn from our Turkish allies.

All the regions at our border that give us a strategic advantage should be annexxed, not only tiny pockets like the Ghudwana enclave was.

If what @Saifullah says is true, and Nuristan harbours a small population of mostly non-Pashtuns upto 200k, then annexxing it becomes quite feasible, considering the population won't be hostile and insignficant in size.

We should do this wherever feasible, and where it isn't feasible we can de-populate those areas by evacuating them and shelling. This can make our border a truly defensible Pakistani designed border.

At the same time we can use a route into Northern Afghanistan and revive a new front led by Massoud's son to capture the Northern territories and make them an ally to encircle the Taliban. If they manage to capture Kabul, we can even make a deal with them for PAF to control Bagram airbase.

Instead of the old flawed idea of "strategic depth" by empowering extremists, Pakistan can use force and military might to reshape the region more favourable.

New territories, new allies, expand where feasible.

What do you guys think? It can seriously strengthen us even against India.

@Master Chief @Asif @Waz @Ak01 @kimjongun @rafale @iron shrapnel @Taimoor @PAKISTANFOREVER

Some good suggestions here and definitely one or two that need prioritising, however, little steps, done quietly, is a wise approach at this point in time. I don't personally agree with long-term annexation at all - too much trouble for very little return. A "buffer zone", yes, or temporary occupation for leverage (or to facilitate friendly factions), yes. Should be easy to achieve from what we've seen so far.

Importantly, the country that seems best equipped and motivated to thwart Pakistani ambitions is not Afghanistan, Qatar, Israel, or even India. It is Pakistan.

 

[kimjongun]

Pakistan must seriously abandon its usual constrained and passive, pascifist mindset and start thinking more strategically to re-shape the region in our benefit in a sustainable way, instead of being timid and facing aggression from others. It's something we have to learn from our Turkish allies.

All the regions at our border that give us a strategic advantage should be annexxed, not only tiny pockets like the Ghudwana enclave was.

If what @Saifullah says is true, and Nuristan harbours a small population of mostly non-Pashtuns upto 200k, then annexxing it becomes quite feasible, considering the population won't be hostile and insignficant in size.

We should do this wherever feasible, and where it isn't feasible we can de-populate those areas by evacuating them and shelling. This can make our border a truly defensible Pakistani designed border.

At the same time we can use a route into Northern Afghanistan and revive a new front led by Massoud's son to capture the Northern territories and make them an ally to encircle the Taliban. If they manage to capture Kabul, we can even make a deal with them for PAF to control Bagram airbase.

Instead of the old flawed idea of "strategic depth" by empowering extremists, Pakistan can use force and military might to reshape the region more favourable.

New territories, new allies, expand where feasible.

What do you guys think? It can seriously strengthen us even against India.

@Master Chief @Asif @Waz @Ak01 @kimjongun @rafale @iron shrapnel @Taimoor @PAKISTANFOREVER

I am not a professional in the matters where taking control of land and other things are included however for what i think of it:

-If capturing Nuristan is enabling us an easier route to our Northern areas like some user said chitral then its a great thing
-New territories would need newer man power to control it , new infrastructure and if we take wakhan China is definitely gonna interrupt in it .
-How would our local Population gonna react to it? would our budget allow it? Is the Loss of life and movement of assets feasible?
-Talibs are never in their so called right minds would let us hold Bagram airbase and Probably PAF doesn't get much Benifit from it.
-The Northern Alliance is currently quite weak , so them capturing Kabul is farfetched.
-We would mostly be seen as aggressors in this case scenario and if it goes wrong somehow then it would be worse then axing of your own legs .
So i dont think its that much profitable , a buffer zone is much better.

 

[Ak01]

Pakistan must seriously abandon its usual constrained and passive, pascifist mindset and start thinking more strategically to re-shape the region in our benefit in a sustainable way, instead of being timid and facing aggression from others. It's something we have to learn from our Turkish allies.

All the regions at our border that give us a strategic advantage should be annexxed, not only tiny pockets like the Ghudwana enclave was.

If what @Saifullah says is true, and Nuristan harbours a small population of mostly non-Pashtuns upto 200k, then annexxing it becomes quite feasible, considering the population won't be hostile and insignficant in size.

We should do this wherever feasible, and where it isn't feasible we can de-populate those areas by evacuating them and shelling. This can make our border a truly defensible Pakistani designed border.

At the same time we can use a route into Northern Afghanistan and revive a new front led by Massoud's son to capture the Northern territories and make them an ally to encircle the Taliban. If they manage to capture Kabul, we can even make a deal with them for PAF to control Bagram airbase.

Instead of the old flawed idea of "strategic depth" by empowering extremists, Pakistan can use force and military might to reshape the region more favourable.

New territories, new allies, expand where feasible.

What do you guys think? It can seriously strengthen us even against India.

@Master Chief @Asif @Waz @Ak01 @kimjongun @rafale @iron shrapnel @Taimoor @PAKISTANFOREVER

I just don’t understand why anyone is pro annexing Afghan territory Willy nilly.

Tajiks, uzbeks, hazaras, whatever they may be, they’ have an Afghan identity and ideals. Unless you can be sure they’re not interested in an Afghan state, why would you add more powder into the keg? Why take in more people that hate us into our state?

The only thing I’d be somewhat open to is a buffer zone where the area is fenced off on both sides so freedom of movement doesn’t exist, that we can filter who and who doesn’t go in or out. Also wouldn’t be opposed to laying waste to Afghan airports barring a select few we can monitor inbound and outbound traffic from.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

I am not a professional in the matters where taking control of land and other things are included however for what i think of it:

-If capturing Nuristan is enabling us an easier route to our Northern areas like some user said chitral then its a great thing
-New territories would need newer man power to control it , new infrastructure and if we take wakhan China is definitely gonna interrupt in it .
-How would our local Population gonna react to it? would our budget allow it? Is the Loss of life and movement of assets feasible?
-Talibs are never in their so called right minds would let us hold Bagram airbase and Probably PAF doesn't get much Benifit from it.
-The Northern Alliance is currently quite weak , so them capturing Kabul is farfetched.
-We would mostly be seen as aggressors in this case scenario and if it goes wrong somehow then it would be worse then axing of your own legs .
So i dont think its that much profitable , a buffer zone is much better.

I just don’t understand why anyone is pro annexing Afghan territory Willy nilly.

Tajiks, uzbeks, hazaras, whatever they may be, they’ have an Afghan identity and ideals. Unless you can be sure they’re not interested in an Afghan state, why would you add more powder into the keg? Why take in more people that hate us into our state?

The only thing I’d be somewhat open to is a buffer zone where the area is fenced off on both sides so freedom of movement doesn’t exist, that we can filter who and who doesn’t go in or out. Also wouldn’t be opposed to laying waste to Afghan airports barring a select few we can monitor inbound and outbound traffic from.

I think at the very least the strategically vital zones for border security should be anexxed, like the Ghudwana enclave was, to retain those points on our side.

The buffer zone idea is the most beneficial but the infrastructure to establish it would cost a lot.

In regards to further annexation, it was mainly referring to strategically defensible low population zones that don't harbour the more hostile populations like Afghan Pashtuns that form the Taliban. Obviously the cost to benefit ratio has to be considered if its worthwhile. It could give us more land depth that we lack currently.

I don't think worrying about the sentiment of the rest of them should matter because Afghan identity is already funamentally built upon hostility and desire for destruction of Pakistan, there's nothing to salvage in that segment. If we can find allies that want autonomy in the North, we can explore that to further choke the Taliban.

 

[iron shrapnel]

Pakistan must seriously abandon its usual constrained and passive, pascifist mindset and start thinking more strategically to re-shape the region in our benefit in a sustainable way, instead of being timid and facing aggression from others. It's something we have to learn from our Turkish allies.

All the regions at our border that give us a strategic advantage should be annexxed, not only tiny pockets like the Ghudwana enclave was.

If what @Saifullah says is true, and Nuristan harbours a small population of mostly non-Pashtuns upto 200k, then annexxing it becomes quite feasible, considering the population won't be hostile and insignficant in size.

We should do this wherever feasible, and where it isn't feasible we can de-populate those areas by evacuating them and shelling. This can make our border a truly defensible Pakistani designed border.

At the same time we can use a route into Northern Afghanistan and revive a new front led by Massoud's son to capture the Northern territories and make them an ally to encircle the Taliban. If they manage to capture Kabul, we can even make a deal with them for PAF to control Bagram airbase.

Instead of the old flawed idea of "strategic depth" by empowering extremists, Pakistan can use force and military might to reshape the region more favourable.

New territories, new allies, expand where feasible.

What do you guys think? It can seriously strengthen us even against India.

@Master Chief @Asif @Waz @Ak01 @kimjongun @rafale @iron shrapnel @Taimoor @PAKISTANFOREVER

I don't hate Afghans for being Afghans... I hate them for their actions... That being said... I would like a better neighbor than a Pakistan expanding into Afghanistan ever creating more geopolitical conundrums....

The issue of giving NRF the reigns is that once it consolidates power and it's time for governance then they will have to again adjust their politics as before to gain Afghan trust.

The Greater Afghanistan dream and Afghanistan must be separated at an ideological level.

The Generals larping of strategic depth is a lie... Pakistan all it needs is stable support from within it's borders to hold back the one existential threat i.e India on the Eastern border...



Internally Pakistan should solve it's Financing problems both at state and domestic levels...

The day Pakistan solves issues with Sharia Compliance in the Pakistani banking system... It's the day Pakistan takes off... Our problem is lack of circulation of money within our financial system because lack of trust and non Sharia Compliance by large enterprises and investment circle... It must be implemented for all doing business in Pakistan.

We don't have large local investor pools due to lack of Islamic structure for cash lending...

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

I don't hate Afghans for being Afghans... I hate them for their actions... That being said... I would like a better neighbor than a Pakistan expanding into Afghanistan ever creating more geopolitical conundrums....

The issue of giving NRF the reigns is that once it consolidates power and it's time for governance then they will have to again adjust their politics as before to gain Afghan trust.

The Greater Afghanistan dream and Afghanistan must be separated at an ideological level.

The Generals larping of strategic depth is a lie... Pakistan all it needs is stable support from within it's borders to hold back the one existential threat i.e India on the Eastern border...

View attachment 189191

Internally Pakistan should solve it's Financing problems both at state and domestic levels...

The day Pakistan solves issues with Sharia Compliance in the Pakistani banking system... It's the day Pakistan takes off... Our problem is lack of circulation of money within our financial system because lack of trust and non Sharia Compliance by large enterprises and investment circle... It must be implemented for all doing business in Pakistan.

We don't have large local investor pools due to lack of Islamic structure for cash lending...

*No one* hates another for merely existing, it's what they make central to their existence that becomes the issue. And that's the problem, the Loy Afghanistan dream and racial chauvinism cannot be separated from Afghanistan at an ideological level, that's completely unrealistic and like chasing a golden unicorn. We have been at this for close to 100 years! They had no issue destroying their country for it in the past or today, can you imagine how extreme your hatred must be that after a 20 year war you don't mind more war against a finally stable government? Imagine the hatred and extremism towards the ideology you must have to go through with that.

It has to be treated as a part of Afghan statehood and identity then strategically countered using the available resources so it cannot inflict harm on us. Buffer zones, allied proxy groups, and strategic annexations have got to be on the cards.

Learn firsthand from Turkey. It worked for them.

 

[Starlord]

What do you mean by this, please explain?

My bad, I mixed him with different Sahabi, i double check and he also can read/write and even served as chief justice under Umar Khattab RA.

 

[Starlord]

Total border closure is unfortunately difficult to the point of being impossible. The border is just too porous, and every time the Pakistan Army puts up a fence, the Afghans cut chunks of it and sell it, from what I have heard.

TTA will also not hand over TTP leadership or the operatives, much as they didn't hand over Osama Bin Laden. Besides, some/many TTP operatives seem to be Afghan nationals, perhaps belonging to TTA ranks.

Well if we can't have them handover TTP or shut down their training centers, than I guess we can just keep bombing them, sooner or later a more powerful insurgent group will emerge and then Taliban will be fighting them, head towards a Balkanized Afghanistan, if Indians wants to pay TTP/TTA for attacks on Pakistan, its time we pay NRF to attack Indians in Afghanistan and TTA/TTP. Pakistan wants to play clean in this war, but everyone else is playing dirty. Its time we take off our gloves because the world today only respect the powerful and daring countries, if you are weak than you will be rolled over by the powerful.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Well if we can't have them handover TTP or shut down their training centers, than I guess we can just keep bombing them, sooner or later a more powerful insurgent group will emerge and then Taliban will be fighting them, head towards a Balkanized Afghanistan, if Indians wants to pay TTP/TTA for attacks on Pakistan, its time we pay NRF to attack Indians in Afghanistan and TTA/TTP. Pakistan wants to play clean in this war, but everyone else is playing dirty. Its time we take off our gloves because the world today only respect the powerful and daring countries, if you are weak than you will be rolled over by the powerful.

Pakistan can start by dropping heavy powerful bombs in ALL strategic areas of afghanistan.

 

[Toxic]

I want to see this footage from the Z-10ME soon

Reddit - Please wait for verification

www.reddit.com

 

[hasssanali8998]

I want to see this footage from the Z-10ME soon

Reddit - Please wait for verification

www.reddit.com

do you think our babus will allow this

 

[muz]

I am hearing news of a gas pipeline being blownup in Balochistan

 

[iron shrapnel]

*No one* hates another for merely existing, it's what they make central to their existence that becomes the issue. And that's the problem, the Loy Afghanistan dream and racial chauvinism cannot be separated from Afghanistan at an ideological level, that's completely unrealistic and like chasing a golden unicorn. We have been at this for close to 100 years! They had no issue destroying their country for it in the past or today, can you imagine how extreme your hatred must be that after a 20 year war you don't mind more war against a finally stable government? Imagine the hatred and extremism towards the ideology you must have to go through with that.

It has to be treated as a part of Afghan statehood and identity then strategically countered using the available resources so it cannot inflict harm on us. Buffer zones, allied proxy groups, and strategic annexations have got to be on the cards.

Learn firsthand from Turkey. It worked for them.

Turkey had the economy to carry out their plans... We don't... We need to fix that in tandem or at priority... Otherwise we'll sell our national policy to the highest bidder... What's to say would happen after the FM goes away ? New faces and no continuation...

 

[Taimoor]

I see you have summarily dismissed my claims and have moved on to this "greater Pakistan" conjecture. I shall take that as quiet acquiescence. No problem. A certain level of maturity is required to admit when one has been found out to have been incorrect.

OK, now let us entertain this new devilry of yours, if only for a moment.

This is literally the FIRST I am hearing of "Greater Pakistan" as a concept. I have ZERO interest in a "Greater Pakistan". I only want the Pakistan we should have had in 1947 (minus Bangladesh). Now that should have comprised erstwhile Jammu and Kashmir princely state, +/- Junagadh. Let us leave it at that.

Why on earth should we take responsibility for significantly populated bits of Afghanistan or Hindustan (which is where I presume this "Greater Pakistan" will be cleaved from)? A buffer zone here and there, maybe some occupied land for leverage later, but not any long term significant inhabited land annexation.

I think you will find VERY FEW Pakistanis want such a thing, which is why nobody has given any thought to updating maps in parliament.

Similarly, if your basis for this concept is rooted in the IVC land coverage, then this is a flawed concept, as Islamabad does not "claim current ownership" of those Harappan lands that exist in India. On the contrary, our claim (and I endorse it) is that we are the legacy state of Harappa, and Harappa (in addition to several other bronze age settlements outside of Harappa but still within coterminous Pakistan) was our rightful progenitor.

Obviously, borders shift somewhat over time and we should not have a problem with that or suddenly "demand all of those ancient lands back".

Italy is Ancient Rome's legacy state, even though most of Ancient Rome is no longer part of Italy.

You are trying to project immature and puerile Indian and Afghanistani "cope" behaviour onto us with your talk of "Greater Pakistan maps needed saar!", which is a poor strategy.

Is it difficult to appreciate common sense? Or you just want to argue for the sake of it, trying to come across as some sort of Aristotle? what I was implying? Both your neighbour claim YOUR territory because of the recent or mythical past. These claims are very much ingrained not only at their decision making level but commoners as well. You in turn have NOTHING to counter them because you been lazy and taking all the non sense from them without having your own claims, rather counter claims. You may not like this, but this is how real world works. Newton third law of motion. When we talk about IVC and Pakistan's territory based on that, we are basically talking about a much bigger Pakistan then what it is today, you are claiming both India and Afghan territory based on that. I used greater Pakistan, because its easier to understand, just like greater Isreal, or Akhand Bharat.... You dont like the name, call it Pax Pakistana, Industan?

You claim you hearing it first time, how old are you? Just want to understand the level of exposure and mental maturity I am dealing with.

As for your zero interest, you are no body, insignificant one. You interest or lack of, wont keep the hordes on both flanks having their wet dreams of dismembering you and creating their country in its original form as they preceive. Even Persians want to invoke their Persian empire. You are the only fool in this neighbour whose left sucking on your thumb.

 

[Taimoor]

Pakistan must seriously abandon its usual constrained and passive, pascifist mindset and start thinking more strategically to re-shape the region in our benefit in a sustainable way, instead of being timid and facing aggression from others. It's something we have to learn from our Turkish allies.

All the regions at our border that give us a strategic advantage should be annexxed, not only tiny pockets like the Ghudwana enclave was.

If what @Saifullah says is true, and Nuristan harbours a small population of mostly non-Pashtuns upto 200k, then annexxing it becomes quite feasible, considering the population won't be hostile and insignficant in size.

We should do this wherever feasible, and where it isn't feasible we can de-populate those areas by evacuating them and shelling. This can make our border a truly defensible Pakistani designed border.

At the same time we can use a route into Northern Afghanistan and revive a new front led by Massoud's son to capture the Northern territories and make them an ally to encircle the Taliban. If they manage to capture Kabul, we can even make a deal with them for PAF to control Bagram airbase.

Instead of the old flawed idea of "strategic depth" by empowering extremists, Pakistan can use force and military might to reshape the region more favourable.

New territories, new allies, expand where feasible.

What do you guys think? It can seriously strengthen us even against India.

@Master Chief @Asif @Waz @Ak01 @kimjongun @rafale @iron shrapnel @Taimoor @PAKISTANFOREVER

This passiveness comes from the fact that our population has been conditioned to act as such. There is no desire or even attempt to give nation something to inspire for. Persians wants to revive their persian empire, Afghans wants loy Afghan, Indians dream of Akhand Bharat. There is a reason both Afghan and Indians mock us that there was no Pakistan before 1947, because we act docile with no counter claims. FKing Isreali army put greater Israel patches on their uniform, officially, for some mythical land that was promised to them 3000 years ago. what is Pakistani dream?