Indian Air Force News and Discussions ll

[hussain0216]

No one expected it to, we need just enough access to integrate our systems with it as per our requirements(just like MKIs) and in future can make upgrades to it without the need to purchase expensive weapons and upgrade packages from OEMs. In return they would probably restrict the sale of our integrated systems to other Rafale operators.

If you were not expecting it to

Then why did you ask

 

[Yasser76]

No one expected it to, we need just enough access to integrate our systems with it as per our requirements(just like MKIs) and in future can make upgrades to it without the need to purchase expensive weapons and upgrade packages from OEMs. In return they would probably restrict the sale of our integrated systems to other Rafale operators.

Nice backpeddling, Indian media and this very forum has been full of bluster about your large order, make in India and integrating Indian weapons. French have shown you the finger, they know you have very little other options.

I would really not be surprised if this deal is signed (big if as we are told it was done and dusted so many times), France may wack on another price increase.

Good for them and thanks for funding their 6th gen project.

 

[INS_Vikrant]

If you were not expecting it to

Then why did you ask

That's how deals are negotiated. Both sides come up with their maximalist demand first (knowing well the other side won't agree) , then negotiate and tone them down to acceptable terms then deal gets finalized with both parties meeting in the middle.

 

[Yasser76]

That's how deals are negotiated. Both sides come up with their maximalist demand first (knowing well the other side won't agree) , then negotiate and tone them down to acceptable terms then deal gets finalized with both parties meeting in the middle.

What the f**k are you in Paj? Just a few weeks ago this was a done deal, now it is being negotiated?

See why almost every report on Indian defence procurement cannot be taken seriously?

Next thing you know you will tell us HAL did not mean to deliver 12 Tejas in March.....they were only laying out their maximalist position.

Clowns

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

According to French press reports, the country's government has rejected India's request for access to the source code of the electronic systems of the Rafale fighter jets. This decision limits India's ability to independently modernize the aircraft and integrate weapons and electronic systems of its own origin. France is not allowing access to the aircraft's radar, data processing unit and electronic warfare system, that is, to three critical systems. The French side considers these technologies extremely sensitive and are under strict protection.

This decision has raised uncertainty about the implementation of India's program to purchase 114 additional Rafales, a program that New Delhi approved in mid-February, at a budgeted cost of €30.2 billion. According to what was approved, 18 aircraft will be manufactured in France, while the rest in India. At the beginning of the program, the Indian added value will be around 30%, while it will gradually increase to 60%. The production of the aircraft will involve the state-owned HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited), as well as private Indian defense industries.

We remind you that India already has 36 aircraft in its arsenal, while it has ordered 26 aircraft for the Navy. For India, control of the source code is crucial for the integration of its own weapons and for the modernization of the aircraft in the future. On the other hand, France does not agree to the permission to access the source code, which is the set of software instructions that determine how the electronic systems operate. France's refusal means that India will continue to depend on Paris' approval for any changes it wants to make to the aircraft, while possible political changes could lead to restrictions on access to the necessary software updates.

Why do 1.5 billion indians need to purchase the fighter jets from a country with a population of just under 70 million?.............. ............are indians that scientifically and technologically backward?...........................

 

[Anahita]

According to French press reports, the country's government has rejected India's request for access to the source code of the electronic systems of the Rafale fighter jets. This decision limits India's ability to independently modernize the aircraft and integrate weapons and electronic systems of its own origin. France is not allowing access to the aircraft's radar, data processing unit and electronic warfare system, that is, to three critical systems. The French side considers these technologies extremely sensitive and are under strict protection.

This decision has raised uncertainty about the implementation of India's program to purchase 114 additional Rafales, a program that New Delhi approved in mid-February, at a budgeted cost of €30.2 billion. According to what was approved, 18 aircraft will be manufactured in France, while the rest in India. At the beginning of the program, the Indian added value will be around 30%, while it will gradually increase to 60%. The production of the aircraft will involve the state-owned HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited), as well as private Indian defense industries.

We remind you that India already has 36 aircraft in its arsenal, while it has ordered 26 aircraft for the Navy. For India, control of the source code is crucial for the integration of its own weapons and for the modernization of the aircraft in the future. On the other hand, France does not agree to the permission to access the source code, which is the set of software instructions that determine how the electronic systems operate. France's refusal means that India will continue to depend on Paris' approval for any changes it wants to make to the aircraft, while possible political changes could lead to restrictions on access to the necessary software updates.

untill and unless India develops a fighter jet engine of its own this circus will continue, i think now Indian Government has realised that they need to invest billions of dollars in development of a turbofan engine now they have started making engine testing facilities and sanctioned 8 billion dollars for development of an engine which is meant to power AMCA and also replace existing GE engines in Tejas

https://www.businessworld.in/article/india-to-spend-rs-65-400-cr-on-fighter-jet-engines-by-2035-576222

its not like India doesnt have expertise and the resources to develop a fighter jet engine a country which can make nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, cryogenic engines, AESA Radars can make a turbofan engine too

 

[Anahita]

Nice backpeddling, Indian media and this very forum has been full of bluster about your large order, make in India and integrating Indian weapons. French have shown you the finger, they know you have very little other options.

I would really not be surprised if this deal is signed (big if as we are told it was done and dusted so many times), France may wack on another price increase.

Good for them and thanks for funding their 6th gen project.

The HAL Tejas remains the most practical and strategically valuable option for the Indian Air Force. Its reliance on an imported American engine is a clear drawback, but beyond that, the platform offers significant advantages. Most of its avionics are Indian, and even systems like the Israeli radar can be replaced with indigenous solutions such as the UTTAM AESA Radar with relative ease.

Because India owns the intellectual property rights to Tejas, it has full control over the aircraft’s evolution. This allows continuous upgrades and modifications based on real-time feedback from the Air Force—something no imported platform can offer. Tejas can seamlessly integrate Indian weapons, adapt to emerging doctrines, and even evolve into a “mothership” capable of controlling drones.

Equally important, the program strengthens India’s long-term fighter jet development ecosystem, built over more than three decades. For instance, the BrahMos missile is a major air-to-ground weapon in the IAF, but currently only about 40 Su-30MKI aircraft are capable of carrying it. Tejas, however, is expected to carry two BrahMos-NG missiles, while the upcoming HAL Tejas Mk2 could carry two full-sized BrahMos along with four BrahMos-NG.

Moreover, Tejas is deeply integrated into India’s network-centric warfare ecosystem—a level of integration that is extremely difficult to achieve with imported platforms.

 

[Oscar]

Its already in limited series production by Godrej

No, the Kaveri is not even close to being a “limited scale production” engine that can be operationally integrated into Tejas or UCAVs in any meaningful way.

Yes, Godrej is now assembling Kaveri derivative engines and GTRE has shifted some production burden to them, but that’s an industrialization milestone, not an operational readiness declaration.

KDE (Kaveri Derivative) is only in the 48–49 kN dry thrust class and is still being endurance‑tested and waiting for high‑altitude validation, including dependence on Russian test facilities, which is itself a major bottleneck.

And the whole reason India is turning two Su‑30MKIs into flying testbeds is that the engine is not ready for a real fighter airframe yet; it needs extensive in‑flight certification and envelope expansion.

The current realistic path is that an early dry‑type Kaveri derivative could see use on the Ghatak UCAV or similar unmanned platforms. Even that is still a “potential future use,” not a fielded, production‑fitted solution.

The program is still grinding through certification, high‑altitude testing, and low‑rate production runs, with the best‑case timeline putting a mature Kaveri 2.0 derivative into limited manned‑fighter use only in the mid‑ to late‑2030s. Until then, the Kaveri should be treated as a long‑term industrial‑autonomy project, not as a near‑term technical peer to Western or Russian engines.

 

[Yasser76]

The HAL Tejas remains the most practical and strategically valuable option for the Indian Air Force. Its reliance on an imported American engine is a clear drawback, but beyond that, the platform offers significant advantages. Most of its avionics are Indian, and even systems like the Israeli radar can be replaced with indigenous solutions such as the UTTAM AESA Radar with relative ease.

Because India owns the intellectual property rights to Tejas, it has full control over the aircraft’s evolution. This allows continuous upgrades and modifications based on real-time feedback from the Air Force—something no imported platform can offer. Tejas can seamlessly integrate Indian weapons, adapt to emerging doctrines, and even evolve into a “mothership” capable of controlling drones.

Equally important, the program strengthens India’s long-term fighter jet development ecosystem, built over more than three decades. For instance, the BrahMos missile is a major air-to-ground weapon in the IAF, but currently only about 40 Su-30MKI aircraft are capable of carrying it. Tejas, however, is expected to carry two BrahMos-NG missiles, while the upcoming HAL Tejas Mk2 could carry two full-sized BrahMos along with four BrahMos-NG.

Moreover, Tejas is deeply integrated into India’s network-centric warfare ecosystem—a level of integration that is extremely difficult to achieve with imported platforms.

I will look past the utter ignorance here, and ask one simple question.

You have not one Tejas MK2 in operational service, so how can it be "deeply integrated into India's network-centric warfare ecosystem". You do not even have an ecosystem, May 7th proved that.

You are literally typing out your wishlist and pretending it is real.....

 

[Anahita]

I will look past the utter ignorance here, and ask one simple question.

You have not one Tejas MK2 in operational service, so how can it be "deeply integrated into India's network-centric warfare ecosystem". You do not even have an ecosystem, May 7th proved that.

You are literally typing out your wishlist and pretending it is real.....

I won’t get into what May 7 proved, but India’s network-centric warfare ecosystem is among the most advanced in the world. Its backbone is the Defence Communication Network (DCN), which has been operational for over a decade. The DCN was dedicated to the nation by Manohar Parrikar on 30 June 2016.

Another critical component is the Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) of the Indian Air Force, which enables real-time coordination and provides a unified operational picture. It allows synchronized responses across the Army, Navy, and Air Force, significantly enhancing joint operations capability. This system has recently demonstrated its effectiveness during heightened tensions between India and Pakistan following Operation Sindoor.

https://www.pib.gov.in/PressNoteDetails.aspx?NoteId=154490&ModuleId=3&reg=3&lang=2

 

[Yasser76]

I won’t get into what May 7 proved, but India’s network-centric warfare ecosystem is among the most advanced in the world. Its backbone is the Defence Communication Network (DCN), which has been operational for over a decade. The DCN was dedicated to the nation by Manohar Parrikar on 30 June 2016.

Another critical component is the Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) of the Indian Air Force, which enables real-time coordination and provides a unified operational picture. It allows synchronized responses across the Army, Navy, and Air Force, significantly enhancing joint operations capability. This system has recently demonstrated its effectiveness during heightened tensions between India and Pakistan following Operation Sindoor.

https://www.pib.gov.in/PressNoteDetails.aspx?NoteId=154490&ModuleId=3&reg=3&lang=2

I see you signed up just after April Fools Day. Lets leave it at this.

If you had any sort of ecosystem it did not work. 8-10 downed jets is testament to that.

Enjoy what will probably be your very short time on PDF.....

 

[Shui]

I won’t get into what May 7 proved, but India’s network-centric warfare ecosystem is among the most advanced in the world. Its backbone is the Defence Communication Network (DCN), which has been operational for over a decade. The DCN was dedicated to the nation by Manohar Parrikar on 30 June 2016.

Another critical component is the Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) of the Indian Air Force, which enables real-time coordination and provides a unified operational picture. It allows synchronized responses across the Army, Navy, and Air Force, significantly enhancing joint operations capability. This system has recently demonstrated its effectiveness during heightened tensions between India and Pakistan following Operation Sindoor.

https://www.pib.gov.in/PressNoteDetails.aspx?NoteId=154490&ModuleId=3&reg=3&lang=2

Is that you, Mr harpy.

 

[NeptunesVortex]

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[NeptunesVortex]

India’s fourth S-400 system ready in Russia, undergoing final testing before delivery

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[Yasser76]

As I suspected and wrote on here many times, the Rafale deal is far from done, and may actually never get signed if negotiations fail...

Rafale order plan: Govt to ensure jets can carry indigenous missiles

The defence ministry is expected to issue the Request For Proposal (RFP) to French jet maker Dassault in May, and contract negotiations will begin thereafter.| India News

www.hindustantimes.com