Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[Aryan_B]

I read about 10 pages on here and then on AL jazeera I just listened to press interview with Iranian delegation and I saw JD vance after close of meetings.

Some of you guys are a bit excitable did you expect after 1 meeting albeit 21 hours or so for their to be a magical break thru? I think we were all a bit apprehensive before the meetings and with good reason

The Iranian interview stated there was some agreement but on 3 or 4 issues there was much difference.

Vance said they left a deal on the table. obviously not to Iran's satisfaction.


When looking Pakistan and how neutral they were look Shabaz Sharif body language just check out his hugs with Iranian and American delegation

I was amazed that lead delegates of Iran and US actually shook hands

Lets hope there are further discussions whilst there is no break thru there's no break down either.

There is too much imo for Trump not to agree to some deal despite his bombastic bollocks. Both his domestic issues and the effect of closure of straights and the very bad effect on the entire world economy

On the Iranian side despite their brilliant response and bravery Iranian life is precious we don't want more destruction of Iran

The only real issue is can America put down Israeli blood lust

So be prepared for worse but hope and pray for best,

 

[r3alist]

was amazed that lead delegates of Iran and US actually shook hands

Great post, people need to pause to comprehend what a significant step that is and happening after decades. The credit to that goes to the hosts and Iran and the Americans understand this

 

[ShapurII]

The Iranian interview stated there was some agreement but on 3 or 4 issues there was much difference.

They said the same thing before as well. Nothing has changed. Those 3 or 4 issues are the only ones that matter, the rest are not important at all.

Those 3 or 4 issues are probably these:
1. Unfreezing Iranian assets. We are talking about $27 billion frozen assets in foreign countries.
2. Recognition of Iran's right to enrich uranium per NPT. NPT clearly and unambiguously states that all signatory states can enrich uranium. Iran should be no exception to this.
3. Fate of the uranium stockpile in Iran. Iran is not going to hand it over to the Americans. They failed to seize it through war. There is no reason to hand it over diplomatically now.

And the fourth one is the Strait of Hormuz which is a new point of disagreement.
So, if anything, our differences are now wider than it used to be during 2 rounds of Oman negotiations.

 

[ShapurII]

Great post, people need to pause to comprehend what a significant step that is and happening after decades. The credit to that goes to the hosts and Iran and the Americans understand this

Nonsense. John Kerry and Javad Zarrif even hugged each other and walked together like two teenagers in love, spending their honeymoon in Europe. None of it matters. It's not even a step, let alone a significant step.

 

[Aryan_B]

They said the same thing before as well. Nothing has changed. Those 3 or 4 issues are the only ones that matter, the rest are not important at all.

Those 3 or 4 issues are probably these:
1. Unfreezing Iranian assets. We are talking about $27 billion frozen assets in foreign countries.
2. Recognition of Iran's right to enrich uranium per NPT. NPT clearly and unambiguously states that all signatory states can enrich uranium. Iran should be no exception to this.
3. Fate of the uranium stockpile in Iran. Iran is not going to hand it over to the Americans. They failed to seize it through war. There is no reason to hand it over diplomatically now.

And the fourth one is the Strait of Hormuz which is a new point of disagreement.
So, if anything, our differences are now wider than it used to be during 2 rounds of Oman negotiations.

You are wrong both situations are not the same.

Strait of Hormuz and fucking up the entire world economy is a new phenomenon that US is forced to take into account. Even European countries complaining about adverse effects on their economy. There are already real live time effects. American mango i meant maga but mango sounds better lol are crying at price of petrol. In india people are leaving cities and going to their villages etc

And in any even Trumpet has told Americans dont worry petrol will come down.

Simply the effect of Strait of Hormuz on world economy along with domestic pressure hopefully makes a deal more possible now

 

[TallGuy]

Israel
.
.
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UAE conducted False Flag attacks on Saudia oil facilities right after ceasefire

 

[ShapurII]

You are wrong both situations are not the same.

Strait of Hormuz and fucking up the entire world economy is a new phenomenon that US is forced to take into account. Even European countries complaining about adverse effects on their economy. There are already real live time effects. American mango i meant maga but mango sounds better lol are crying at price of petrol. In india people are leaving cities and going to their villages etc

And in any even Trumpet has told Americans dont worry petrol will come down.

Simply the effect of Strait of Hormuz on world economy along with domestic pressure hopefully makes a deal more possible now

What does that have to do with what I said?

You said only 3 or 4 issues had remained to be solved, as if we were making some progress towards a deal and I already answered why those remaining issues were the only ones that mattered. There was no progress. None. Sifr. Null. Zilch.

 

[Aryan_B]

They said the same thing before as well. Nothing has changed.

That's simply not correct. The straits give Iran more leverage than ever before and therefore makes more likely a deal may happen

 

[Aryan_B]

You said only 3 or 4 issues had remained to be solved, as if we were making some progress towards a deal and I already answered why those remaining issues were the only ones that mattered. There was no progress. None. Sifr. Null. Zilch.

No I did not state that I stated the Iranian delegation stated that

 

[r3alist]

Nonsense. John Kerry and Javad Zarrif even hugged each other and walked together like two teenagers in love, spending their honeymoon in Europe. None of it matters. It's not even a step, let alone a significant step.

Then by your thinking the only theoretical course is to let hostilities play out until someone raises the White flag unequivocally.

Which implies you do not give the costs a second thought

And you have to be open to the possibility of being on maximalist losing side, potentially in the way Japan currently is

 

[ShapurII]

That's simply not correct. The straits give Iran more leverage than ever before and therefore makes more likely a deal may happen

I'm not following your logic. Now that our differences are wider, a deal is more likely? How so?

No I did not state that I stated the Iranian delegation stated that

And I told you that the Iranian delegation always says that after negotiations. They said exactly the same thing after each round of negotiations with Witkoff in Oman.

 

[ShapurII]

Then by your thinking the only theoretical course is to let hostilities play out until someone raises the White flag unequivocally.

Exactly. Hostilities between the US and Iran will never end until one side is either changed politically or accepts defeat.
Maybe back in 1980s or 1990s, there was a way of reconciliation between the US and Iran. But now that Israel publicly dictates the US what to do, and Israel has never been this aggressive in decades, there's no way.
There is no win-win situation anymore. No 50-50 concessions. No restoration of ties. One side has to defeat the other.

Which implies you do not give the costs a second thought

That's irrelevant because the costs will be imposed on us anyway. The US is not going to have mercy on us because they met us in Islamabad yesterday. The US wants everything they want to get, and even when they get it, they will start plotting their next move. Their whole reason for insisting on handing over the uranium stockpile is because they want to plot their next moves immediately after it has been secured.

And you have to be open to the possibility of being on maximalist losing side, potentially in the way Japan currently is

Japan turned out to be one of the world's poles of economic and scientific power. Not a good example, but yes, you either win or you lose. If you win, the rewards are tremendous. If you lose, the consequences are tremendous too.

 

[BHAN85]

Untrue.
Yolanda Díaz and Ione Belarra, both of them inside of Spanish Government always, before being even elected, supported Palestine cause.

Maybe you're right, I was talking about PSOE.

The people you talk are from far left parties.

Both are from government.

But important decisions are from PSOE, the party with large amount of votes, social democrats, left, non far left.

I don't know how much Podemos/Sumar leaders believe in what they say, but certainly more than PSOE.

Anyway, it's their voters, including PSOE who really care about Iran war, Gaza war.

So they don't need to take real actions, just to say strong words in public. To keep happy their voters.

American war airplanes kept flying here at the same their antiwar rants.

 

[mangekyo]

.
I agree.
If the goal it is defending Saudí Arabia and not to encircle Irán, to me there is no problem.

The Iranian goal it is to take out americans of the whole region. While this is not possible (EAU and Kuwait) completely, this is deffinitively a step up to take out them.

Mangekyo, you're witnessing the demise of US hegemony. And that happened thanks exclusively to Irán. They have been wiped out. And I am pretty sure that having pakistanis at the other side of the Persian Gulf will help to enhance a good neighboring and friendly relations.

Emiratis should be afraid, not persians.

But to defend Saudi Arabia from what? Iran is hitting Saudi because they are allowing the Americans to use Saudi airspace and bases against us. Saudi is the clear aggressor against Iran.

I understand it’s a sensitive topic. But if Pakistan chooses to defend Saudi against Iran, it means they are undermining Iran’s respons and further emboldening the Saudis and even the Americans and Israelis. By doing so, Pakistan is siding with the aggressors. This is all I’m saying.

Could it be that this is a move from Pakistan to show they can provide security to Saudi and force Saudis to kick out the Americans? Maybe, but it’s unlikely.

What was shocking to me is that no one but one member was against this move, some even went as far as blaming us for attacking «our neighbors» completely ignoring why we are attacking them in the first place.

 

[Fatman17]