Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

Toxic said:
PAF making use of refuelers quite a lot these I think it could use some additional refuelers, perhaps 2 KC-390s to augment the il-78s
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I think we need something like a330 MRTT or perhaps even buy older kc-135 if it makes more sense to refuel f-16 fleet in particular with deployments to Saudi Arabia these capabilities will become more necessary and Saudi tanker fleet is currently insufficient to handle our needs as well
 
Ali_Baba said:
Better off getting the Embraer Lineage 1000 and also converting that for air-to-air refueller roles given that Pakistan is getting the same platform for PN, and potentially a home grown AEW&C.

The other alternative is a Y-20 based platform, given Pakistan may procure that platform at some point in the future as a IL-78 replacement( though at $160 million as the starting point for a new Y20, I am not sure how viable it will be ).

There is no value in getting too many different types of platforms given the increase in new logistics and support costs that come with each platform.
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Toxic said:
Yeah no, if you convert a lineage 1000 into a tanker it would be a pretty shit tanker, there are a million different reasons why it wouldn't work and it can only carry a enough fuel to maybe refuel 3 fighters at most.

KC-390 is pretty good and relatively cost effective ($120 mil I believe) and decently low operating costs and it uses the same engines as the A320 the mainstay of Pakistani airlines so you have some Commonlity there too and if PAF wants it can procure additional C-390s to expand and modernize the transport fleet, the KC-390s have removable fuel tanks so they can be used as cargo aircraft too.
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KC-390 would be a good tanker for operating over Pakistani airspace. While efficient, it's fuel capacity is relatively small for a tanker, but it would suffice for keeping JF-17s, for example, on station. On top of that, the airliner-type efficiency makes the KC-390 a good day-to-day logistics pusher, i.e., airbase to airbase flights involving supplies, equipment, and personnel/families.

OTOH, for tanker ops over the Arabian Sea, nothing less than the A330 MRTT would suffice. Now we are talking about supporting long-haul flights, possibly long on-station durations (e.g., for LRMPAs, AEW&C, etc) and greater force support (e.g., 6-8+ fighters at a time, if not more). The A330 MRTT (or Boeing 767-based equivalent) carries a lot of fuel versus the KC-390, like several times more, which is what you'd need.

Ideally, if not for limited funds and options, the PAF would operate a mix of KC-390s and A330 MRTTs, e.g., x16-20KC-390s for logistics and part-time AAR, x2 A330 MRTTs for long-haul AAR, and 12 C-130Hs for unprepared airfield ops (tied into SOF).
 
puttputt said:
KC-390 would be a good tanker for operating over Pakistani airspace. While efficient, it's fuel capacity is relatively small for a tanker, but it would suffice for keeping JF-17s, for example, on station. On top of that, the airliner-type efficiency makes the KC-390 a good day-to-day logistics pusher, i.e., airbase to airbase flights involving supplies, equipment, and personnel/families.

OTOH, for tanker ops over the Arabian Sea, nothing less than the A330 MRTT would suffice. Now we are talking about supporting long-haul flights, possibly long on-station durations (e.g., for LRMPAs, AEW&C, etc) and greater force support (e.g., 6-8+ fighters at a time, if not more). The A330 MRTT (or Boeing 767-based equivalent) carries a lot of fuel versus the KC-390, like several times more, which is what you'd need.

Ideally, if not for limited funds and options, the PAF would operate a mix of KC-390s and A330 MRTTs, e.g., x16-20KC-390s for logistics and part-time AAR, x2 A330 MRTTs for long-haul AAR, and 12 C-130Hs for unprepared airfield ops (tied into SOF).
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I don’t think kc-390 is in cards. Paf was looking at c-130j and there may be more sense in converting older ones into kc-130s. India is also looking at large scale c-390 purchase which might make their potential influence over embraer stronger.
 
What we really need is a boom refueling tanker for f-16s however for probe and drouge fleet i think best short to medium term option is buying 3 il-78s currently in service with PLAAF as they are being replaced by yy-20s
 
Ibbi32 said:
What we really need is a boom refueling tanker for f-16s however for probe and drouge fleet i think best short to medium term option is buying 3 il-78s currently in service with PLAAF as they are being replaced by yy-20s
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they have 6 not 3
 
Ibbi32 said:
What we really need is a boom refueling tanker for f-16s however for probe and drouge fleet i think best short to medium term option is buying 3 il-78s currently in service with PLAAF as they are being replaced by yy-20s
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This is a good choice. The PLAAF's currently active Il-78s could indeed be sold to the PAF at a relatively low price.

Production of the YY-20 has currently ceased; XAC is currently focused primarily on producing the Y-20B MRTT.

Once the production volume of the Y-20 series transport aircraft meets operational requirements, all Il-76 and Il-78 series transport aircraft currently in the PLAAF inventory will be mandatorily retired.
 
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Ibbi32 said:
What we really need is a boom refueling tanker for f-16s
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Embraer is developing a boom version of the KC-390
puttputt said:
KC-390 would be a good tanker for operating over Pakistani airspace. While efficient, it's fuel capacity is relatively small for a tanker, but it would suffice for keeping JF-17s, for example, on station. On top of that, the airliner-type efficiency makes the KC-390 a good day-to-day logistics pusher, i.e., airbase to airbase flights involving supplies, equipment, and personnel/families.

OTOH, for tanker ops over the Arabian Sea, nothing less than the A330 MRTT would suffice. Now we are talking about supporting long-haul flights, possibly long on-station durations (e.g., for LRMPAs, AEW&C, etc) and greater force support (e.g., 6-8+ fighters at a time, if not more). The A330 MRTT (or Boeing 767-based equivalent) carries a lot of fuel versus the KC-390, like several times more, which is what you'd need.

Ideally, if not for limited funds and options, the PAF would operate a mix of KC-390s and A330 MRTTs, e.g., x16-20KC-390s for logistics and part-time AAR, x2 A330 MRTTs for long-haul AAR, and 12 C-130Hs for unprepared airfield ops (tied into SOF).
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This would make sense if any of our current and future force multipliers had AAR refueling capability but they don't.

But I do agree with your last point, A "do it all" Transport fleet will give us great flexibility especially now that PAF has overseas commitments.

Ibbi32 said:
however for probe and drouge fleet i think best short to medium term option is buying 3 il-78s currently in service with PLAAF as they are being replaced by yy-20s
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The problem is with a platform like the Il-78 itself that is increasing going to get more difficult for us to maintain especially if the situation in Ukraine doesn't resolve itself, they might be sufficient for the near future but what about a decade in the future, I think even the PAF realises this but of course funds are the issue as always.
 
Issue with KC-390 is that Embraer is looking to sell to India, until that deal is dead in the water, no KC-390's for Pakistan.
 
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