Pakistan Navy Tests Taimoor Cruise Missile

[Taimoor]

how would you assess the warhead effectiveness on a tiny target pontoon? warhead effectiveness is tested on real ships when they are retired and sent to the bottom to start a new life as artificial reef

My original comment was a general observation about our missiles tests. Happy to be corrected but you can go back as far a Hataf 1 and find any missile test of any range and classification which was tested with the conventional warhead? Personally I feel we are not paying attention to the effectiveness of the conventional warheads and question marks about the performance of Fatah series in recent conflict with India raise questions as to why is that. Our next conflicts with India will be fought below nuclear threshold. We need to step up our game, till this date, (again happy to be corrected) we have not demonstrated high yield thermobaric. 1 missile, 1 warhead, utter destruction, without crossing into non conventional domain.

 

[Princeps]

Weve had heavy bomber capabilities since p3. Its why they were used so effectively for bombing swat valley in wot and why they were targeted by taliban in turn. Sea sultan is just an improved version

We also used C130s for bombing iirc

 

[kimjongun]

Weve had heavy bomber capabilities since p3. Its why they were used so effectively for bombing swat valley in wot and why they were targeted by taliban in turn. Sea sultan is just an improved version

what really?? i did not know that any articles or pics???

 

[JamD]

One thing that I want to raise is the employment strategy. I would imagine that Taimoor AS is not meant for the opening salvo because it would be too easy to shoot down. Its strength lies in its massive warhead, which you can probably make even bigger by sacrificing range a little. You need big warheads to sink ships. Speaking of which, I hear that its most beneficial to hit at the water line. Can a radar seeker alone yield that kind of accuracy or do you necessarily need visual tracking? Maybe the sea and the ship makes a nice corner reflector? @Signalian

So I would think other cheaper systems would be used to saturate or distract a target and Taimoor would come in to finish the job. Or there could be a mix of SMASH and Taimoor AS time-on-target attacks, which will force the target to deal with two wildly different threat vectors.

Regardless, an interesting thought experiment.

 

[Ali_Baba]

One thing that I want to raise is the employment strategy. I would imagine that Taimoor AS is not meant for the opening salvo because it would be too easy to shoot down. Its strength lies in its massive warhead, which you can probably make even bigger by sacrificing range a little. You need big warheads to sink ships. Speaking of which, I hear that its most beneficial to hit at the water line. Can a radar seeker alone yield that kind of accuracy or do you necessarily need visual tracking? Maybe the sea and the ship makes a nice corner reflector? @Signalian

So I would think other cheaper systems would be used to saturate or distract a target and Taimoor would come in to finish the job. Or there could be a mix of SMASH and Taimoor AS time-on-target attacks, which will force the target to deal with two wildly different threat vectors.

Regardless, an interesting thought experiment.

Is there advantage in holding onto things like Exocets and other older anti ship missiles in Pakistan service as they can help saturate the target while the good stuff can try and get through?

I don’t know if any of the older antiship missiles in Pakistan have any life left, but if they do, then is it worth potentially have NATSP/Kamra integrate them onto the JF17s?

 

[Toxic]

India's two carriers are a major liability. Since induction none of them have played any signficant role in any operations or even strayed that far from India's coastline.

Old planes with massive servicability issues, no modern anti-missile defences on them, ancient designs.

Utter waste of money and sailors operating a big ship that gives such little capability in return

For now but when they get Rafale Ms it will something to watchout for especially because they can launch scalps outside of PL-15 range.

 

[Toxic]

Weve had heavy bomber capabilities since p3. Its why they were used so effectively for bombing swat valley in wot and why they were targeted by taliban in turn. Sea sultan is just an improved version

what really?? i did not know that any articles or pics???

AFAIK they were only used in a ISR role I don't know of any bombing missions carried out by them would make a very inefficient strike platform.

 

[Yasser76]

For now but when they get Rafale Ms it will something to watchout for especially because they can launch scalps outside of PL-15 range.

Yeah, you are looking at 5 years out from then. Both PN and PAF will look radically different.

Let us also not forget PN's 8 Hangors lurking around.

Indian carriers are their biggest liability in any conflict....

 

[Toxic]

Yeah, you are looking at 5 years out from then. Both PN and PAF will look radically different.

Let us also not forget PN's 8 Hangors lurking around.

Indian carriers are their biggest liability in any conflict....

Would they? We still wouldn't have J-35s by then (most likely) perhaps one more Squadron of J-10Cs and perhaps Squadron or Two of JF-17s not radically different.

For submarines it ultimately depends if PN is able to establish ormara as their main base and the submarines are able to get out to sea and are able to force the carrier to remain at 600NMs then yeah the carrier advantage will be blunted.

 

[Ibbi32]

For now but when they get Rafale Ms it will something to watchout for especially because they can launch scalps outside of PL-15 range.

A dozen or so rafale Ms arent a big problem. They will have to take off with reduced fuel anyway and they dont have any refuelers to meet up with so range is not suitable for any real strike missions where resistance is expected. Ntm their seaborne aew is ass so any long range patrol is also limited. I believe they will be best used for some CAP and p-8 escorts from opportunistic fighters.

 

[rafale]

the key is to be able to operate at standoff ranges. Without dsmac etc, we could probably see extra fuel and push the missile ranges even further. I think they'd be fine, the Indians have far bigger worries if they're sending mig 29s in, they're dead men walking

Mig 29s cannot operate within 250km of PAF jets due to PL15 advantage. In fact, with proper tactics, even PAF AIM120s are enough.

If they are operating 200-250km away from PAF interception ranges, it means they are already 200 km out from the aircraft carrier, means the aircraft carrier itself is barely 400-500km off Pakistan limits.

I know they are clowns with tactics, but they are not that stupid to risk getting a hit on their prized aircraft carrier and the videos being blasted all over the media. Even a single CM-XYZ or shore based CM hit on their aircraft can render it useless or out of battle. Pakistan needs to just get one CM through their AD.

Considering how low most anti ship missiles can fly and the relative calmness of arabian sea most of the time, it is very easy for a missile to fly just few meters above sea surface and be not entirely picked up by AD radars ( aircraft carrier radars are very high mounted and focused more on high flying aerial threats upwards), unless you have 24/7, very high resolution capable AWACS flying constant circles above your carrier group to pick out sea skimming misisles.

I believe this is also one of the reasons for PN to go with Leonardo AESA Sea Spray on its sea sultan..........the ability to track low flying missiles on sea surface while PAF covers the above ground ones.

I see a future fleet of 20 AESA equipped AWACS (PN+PAF) combined in future in Pakistan, including potentially 4-6 KJ500s

 

[Toxic]

no, the bomb bay was said to have been a rotary one, like the one on the b one View attachment 193634


yeah technically we've now got a bomber

A terrible bomber since it would only carry like 5 munitions inside it's bomb bay.

 

[Ibbi32]

A terrible bomber since it would only carry like 5 munitions inside it's bomb bay.

How is 5 munitions terrible? They are gonna be dropping sonobouys and torpedos mostly. Iirc Its not gonna be a simple bomb bay but rather crews switching between sonobouys and munitions in the integrated bomb bay. Besides if needed theres more than enough space to put on hard points and haul around 10 tons of munitions

 

[hussain0216]

Just for reference lakshadeep is about 1200 km from Pakistan coast

Our aim should be to be able to hit anything in the Arabian sea and make that area a death zone for any enemy ship whether Indian or other

 

[Ibbi32]

Just for reference lakshadeep is about 1200 km from Pakistan coast

Our aim should be to be able to hit anything in the Arabian sea and make that area a death zone for any enemy ship whether Indian or other



View attachment 193668

P-3s can already do that but sea sultans will add much more capability