PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

Cipher212 said:
Please list those contradictions. Which jet did well in war games but failed in IRL air-to-air combat. How exactly did it fail? How did it differ from the wargame results? What was the scenario in the actual combat vs the wargames.

You mentioned past 2 decades. That takes us to 2006. I can't recall many air to air engagements between then and now. Especially ones that had an unexpected result.
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Rafale, Su-30, Su-35, all of these were supposed to dominate according to simulations, yet in actual combat they've all been found lacking.

Simulations don't mean combat proven. Being in combat and succeeding means combat proven.
 
That_Guy said:
Rafale, Su-30, Su-35, all of these were supposed to dominate according to simulations, yet in actual combat they've all been found lacking.

Simulations don't mean combat proven. Being in combat and succeeding means combat proven.
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Could you please list the specific airforces that conducted these simulated combats and which simulated threat did these aircraft 'beat'. What aggressor aircraft did they use to simulate the threats. F-22 has also never taken part in real A2A combat but we know just from its specs and rumours of how it performs in wargames that it would curbstomp most modern fighters. Same with F-35 and J-20.


It is reading like you are confusing forum fanboy claims and marketing statements to actual real world military exercises. There are only rumours online occasionally of what happens in exercises and even then the 'scores' are greatly skewed by the pilots, crew and controllers.


Also, Rafale Su-30 and Su-35 all 3 of them are very capable platforms and especially the Rafale has good BVR with the Meteor, datalink , onboard EW etc. Don't be fooled by Indian employment.
 
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That_Guy said:
What peer though?

The A-10 was design specifically for air support against ground targets. Im talking specifically fighters that are primarily meant for air to air, with multirole capability.

Regardless, even by this standard, fighters like the F-35 and Su-57 haven't been in highly contested airspace against a huge network of ground based anti-air systems.

In the case of both Iran and Ukraine, air defenses were few and far between, and remain few and far between to the day.
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Ukraine isnt like it was a couple years ago. Theres several patriot batteries covering entire front now and f-16/m2k flying offensive sorties which is VVS flies so restricted.
 
Cipher212 said:
Could you please list the specific airforces that conducted these simulated combats and which simulated threat did these aircraft 'beat'. What aggressor aircraft did they use to simulate the threats. F-22 has also never taken part in real A2A combat but we know just from its specs and rumours of how it performs in wargames that it would curbstomp most modern fighters. Same with F-35 and J-20.
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You were the one to emphasize the simulations, you tell me which simulations led to them being combat proven.

Im giving actual scenarios where the Su-30/35 (in Ukraine and in India) and Rafale (OpSindoor) have performed poorly.
Cipher212 said:
It is reading like you are confusing forum fanboy claims and marketing statements to actual real world military exercises. There are only rumours online occasionally of what happens in exercises and even then the 'scores' are greatly skewed by the pilots, crew and controllers.
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Nah, not really. I read niche enthusiast, and military sites about this sort of thing.

I don't trust forums with this sort of info.
Cipher212 said:
Also, Rafale Su-30 and Su-35 all 3 of them are very capable platforms and especially the Rafale has good BVR with the Meteor, datalink , onboard EW etc. Don't be fooled by Indian employment.
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On paper, in reality they've not had a good showing so far, especially the Sukhois.

Actually, the Sukhois aren't actually known to have good BVRs, datalinks, radars, and EW suites.

So, yeah. Indian pilots aren't completely incompetent, so we shouldn't completely dismiss this.
 
Ibbi32 said:
Ukraine isnt like it was a couple years ago. Theres several patriot batteries covering entire front now and f-16/m2k flying offensive sorties which is VVS flies so restricted.
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Not exactly a great showing. A few batteries, and a dozen F-16s in an all out war isn't exactly complete coverage. It just means Ukraine can contest airspace, and prevent Russian domination. Ukraine's air force has always been on the backfoot from the beginning, and Zelensky along with his military advisers have said that the F-16s don't make much of a difference anymore.
 
That_Guy said:
You were the one to emphasize the simulations, you tell me which simulations led to them being combat proven.

Im giving actual scenarios where the Su-30/35 (in Ukraine and in India) and Rafale (OpSindoor) have performed poorly.

Nah, not really. I read niche enthusiast, and military sites about this sort of thing.

I don't trust forums with this sort of info.

On paper, in reality they've not had a good showing so far, especially the Sukhois.

Actually, the Sukhois aren't actually known to have good BVRs, datalinks, radars, and EW suites.

So, yeah. Indian pilots aren't completely incompetent, so we shouldn't completely dismiss this.
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The Su-35 has regularly achieved long range air kills in Ukraine theater despite not having the best BVR, exactly as it was designed to do. It also gets shot down because it too is facing combat proven (F-16) platforms.

Rafales on May 7th were employed in a retarded fashion. They were sent into a hornets nest of PL-15 toting fighters and AWACS. Still it does not seem more than one got shot down whereas they lost at least 3 other types on the same night.

The problem with 'combat-proven' metric is that no real fight is ever a fair one.
 
MH.Yang said:
Of course, if a conflict breaks out, India will suffer significant losses. But India is a populist country, and after suffering significant losses in the air force, the Indian government will inevitably use large-scale ground attacks to appease public opinion. This is not good news for Pakistan. Now Pakistan needs a peace window to develop its economy and improve domestic security and stability.
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If India decides to step foot in Pakistan it will be met by Nasr tactical nuke batteries. Large-scale ground invasion means catastrophe for India.
 
All things equal it's geometry that gives you the edge...on may 7 Pakistan had this edge on a vastly superior platform Rafael....PL 15 without geometrical edge wouldn't have been that effective.
 
That_Guy said:
What peer though?

The A-10 was design specifically for air support against ground targets. Im talking specifically fighters that are primarily meant for air to air, with multirole capability.

Regardless, even by this standard, fighters like the F-35 and Su-57 haven't been in highly contested airspace against a huge network of ground based anti-air systems.

In the case of both Iran and Ukraine, air defenses were few and far between, and remain few and far between to the day.
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Not defending the SU-57s record, I agree with you. Just saying the premise that air to ground does not count is wrong
 
Maarkhoor said:
As per new and reports

PAF is getting J35CE
PAF is getting Kaan
PAF is getting own stealth


And I am confused.
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Well, since years - almost a decade - we are hearing such claims:

PAF is getting additional F-16 ... likely Blk. 70
PAF is getting JH-7A
PAF is getting J-15, J-16 or at laest retired MKK
PAF is getting ex-RAF Typhoons
PAF is getting J-20
PAF is getting more J-10CE

AND NOTHING HAPPENED! ... and now the same story goes on with: :cautious:

PAF is getting J35CE
PAF is getting Kaan
PAF is getting own stealth

Honestly, let's wait and see ... and as long as no additional J-10CE were delivered, the transfer of J-35AE is even less likely.
 
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