with all due respect, me being in Karachi would know slightly more about ground reality
Conditions comparable to African countries? seriously dude what are you on?
What you see on social media does not reflect to what is happening on the ground
PTI news, updates and discussions part ll
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with all due respect, me being in Karachi would know slightly more about ground reality
Conditions comparable to African countries? seriously dude what are you on?
What you see on social media does not reflect to what is happening on the ground
Respect4Respect
Trusted Member
brother, i also have relatives and family members living in Pakistan, and the ground reality is that the masses are barely surviving. Maybe you live in DHA or another posh area? you do realize that the poverty rate in Pakistan is over 40% and in rural areas it exceeds 45%...that’s almost half the country. Even if we go by the government’s figures which i don’t trust, it’s still around 29% which means around 70 million people.
We all want Pakistan to progress and be recognized on the international stage but that doesn’t mean it will automatically fix our internal problems. Pakistan is currently going through one of its worst political and economic periods. Geopolitics might keep us in the headlines for a few months but then it’s back to the same old reality.
boss a brief history of my existence in Karachi
Born and Raised: F.B.Area Block 12, saw 92 operations with my eyes, went to Govt College For Men Nazimabad, Nanni's house was in Naziambad number 4, in laws were at Nazimabad gol market, have majority of my maternal side living in Nazimabad, N.Naziambad, Johar etc, have lived on both sides of the bridge
While i do agree with you that things are grim and are certainly not even close to a first world country but not that grim as you think, we have a lot of people living near or under poverty line for sure but boss ye karachi hai ... idhur koi bhooka nahin soota
Respect4Respect
Trusted Member
I've never personally visited Karachi but I have a few friends who lived there and they loved it. It’s called Mini Pakistan for a good reason.
Inflation has wiped out the middle class. In my view only two classes are left now, the elite and the poor. The only families who can still live a "normal life" are the ones with relatives working abroad. Today I saw a GNN report about an FBR official who wrote a letter to the Prime minister requesting a salary increase saying that otherwise he would be forced to resort to corruption like others, it was funny and sad at the same time.
Oscar
Moderator
The problem isnt so much whether Karachi is where it is or how overseas overzealous supporters want to imagine it or some revolution in Pakistan - but that from a pure who Pakistanis are all of these ideals fail because it is a case of Garbage in - Garbage out including IK and cultists of the movement will try to find every excuse to justify their existence while hiding their failures for a deeper diagnosis.
PTI failed not just because of establishment pressure, bad luck, or individual betrayal( though all of those matter) but because it ran into a much deeper subcontinent reality that keeps repeating itself across Pakistan’s history. The region produces movements that can mobilize outrage very quickly, but it struggles to sustain disciplined, institutional change once immediate reward disappears and the real cost of restructuring power begins.
You can explain Pakistan itself this way.
`The country was created through a political movement that worked because it aligned at the right moment with elite Muslim interests and British exhaustion after World War 2, but once the state actually existed, the harder task was building a new civic and institutional order from scratch. That required delayed reward, long term discipline, and a real break from older feudal, patronage, and bureaucratic habits and that break never truly happened.
This is also why blaming only the military is too simple, even if criticism of it is completely justified. Institutions recruit from society, and when the wider political and social pool is already shaped by patronage, nepotism, shortcuts, and transactional thinking, the institution itself reflects that garbage in and garbage out logic rather than escaping it.
You can see the same cycle in Pakistan’s political leaders. Asghar Khan had integrity and idealism, but he could not convert that into durable mass political movement in a culture that rewards patronage(aka TC) and maneuver(a.k.a chaploosi) more than principle. Bhutto and PPP did mobilize the masses and did change the language of politics, but the state they ran still reproduced coercion, elite manipulation, and top down control, so even their so called revolutionary phase became another version of the same system rather than a clean break from it.
PTI followed the exact same arc in a more modern form because connectivity increased.
But was not just blocked from the outside, it was exposed from the inside. It spoke the language of accountability, rupture, and anti status quo politics, but once in office it remained heavily personality driven, dependent on informal influence, and unable to build institutions that could stand apart from Imran Khan himself. That is why the establishment argument, even when valid, is not enough.
If your entire project weakens the moment one man is removed, then you never built a system, you built a following or as it offends many here - a CULT. And when controversy around the leader’s wife, inner circle, and personalized choices starts to matter politically, that is not some side issue, it is proof that the movement had already fallen back into the same non institutional habits it claimed it would defeat.
That is why PTI failed in the deeper sense. It was not only defeated from outside but was also limited from within by the same civilizational and political habits it claimed it would overcome. In Pakistan, every major movement eventually collides with a system that pushes back, waits out the emotional wave, and then absorbs the challenger into an updated version of the same old order.
Take India. Even with stronger institutions, electoral continuity, and real state capacity, the deeper subcontinent pattern still shows up there as well. Modi and the BJP present themselves as a force of civilizational renewal in Hindutva and national transformation, but a lot of that energy still gets translated into centralization, symbolic politics, electoral consolidation, and absorption into the existing logic of power rather than a total break from it. That is the broader regional pattern: movements rise in the language of change, but the system is usually flexible enough to absorb them and turn them into another layer of itself.
The contrast with other regions is that in places like parts of Europe, Japan, or China, major upheaval more often left behind stronger institutions, deeper administrative change, and a clearer culture of long term structural follow through rather than just a new faction inheriting the same underlying social order.
So the real PTI discussion is not whether Imran Khan was better than the others in rhetoric or intent. The real question is whether PTI ever had the discipline, institutional imagination, and social base to break a pattern that has shaped the subcontinent for centuries and the answer is probably NO.
It became the latest movement to expose the system, but not the first one capable of replacing it.
Cipher212
Registered Member
May not be the most appropriate thread to ask but if anyone wants to take a shot at answering me this,
IK got removed in 2022. One of the main reasons provided was that if he was not removed, he would driven the country into the ground. Fast forward to 2026, we're in the shitter still.
Our strategy so far seems to be greasing Trump's palms and doing whatever the IMF wants us to do. We've been at it hard since Op Sindoor.
What exactly has Pakistan as a country gained by having our FM and PM buddies with Trump and doing a lot of 'diplomacy' everywhere. Is there anything that isn't an MoU?
IK got removed in 2022. One of the main reasons provided was that if he was not removed, he would driven the country into the ground. Fast forward to 2026, we're in the shitter still.
Our strategy so far seems to be greasing Trump's palms and doing whatever the IMF wants us to do. We've been at it hard since Op Sindoor.
What exactly has Pakistan as a country gained by having our FM and PM buddies with Trump and doing a lot of 'diplomacy' everywhere. Is there anything that isn't an MoU?
Watandar
Trusted Member
They have gained international legitimacy and guaranteed access to IMF/World Bank/GCC bailouts to keep the country afloat. This has helped obscure Asim Munir's total mishandling of Afghanistan, Balochistan and PTI as well as his goofy SIFC shortcut, where the fool thought that the reason for lack of FDI in Pakistan was the bureaucracy.
Rest there is noone in the country who has any idea how to tackle the deep legal, social and economic problems. Myself all I am looking for in the moment is political stability, with the hope that it can slowly open the door to better things.
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EugeneP
Trusted Member
In the interest of accuracy, one should not throw around 'African countries' as a shorthand for extreme underdevelopment. For e.g.
Take per capita GDP (Nominal)
Pakistan $1,707
Vs.
Equatorial Guinea $8,152
Botswana $8,450
Gabon $9,918
LC150
Registered Member
LC150
Registered Member
the answer is simple ...
GHQ wants to be the boss.... PERIOD
all these partwarns, faujeeets etc and their long boring is lame story with massive doses of self serving logic shows they know as much as they can guess.
lets look at all their stories
Corruption : You think they care about corruption ... really ?.... then why appoint Zadari as President?
Governance : You think care about governance ? really ? then why appoint Maryum who buys private jets while most Pakistanis live under poverty
the list is endless...
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