Pakistani National Anthem.

[Master Chief]

Ex Indian? You must be one of those educated people who believe India was partitioned.

Sir, they have been brainwashed into believing Pakistan belonged to them or that they willingly released it into our care.

Quite contrarily, we took Pakistan from the British occupier. Nehru and Gandhi were not party to these negotiations.

 

[Master Chief]

Why you're so eager to live in a colonial mindset? we haven't a rich historical heritage to proud of? why you insisting that our anthem should be in English rather than in Parsian or in Urdu?, explain me in a logical way not in a trolling way

Relax bhai. Our dear @El Sidd trolls 75% of the time and imparts remarkably wise counsel 25% of the time. It is crucial to understand this when engaging with him.

 

[Blain2]

Because no one forced them to and I am proposing that they should either be forced to learn Urdu through incentives or Urdu forsaken of the mighty task.

Neither of what you propose is feasible. It is a language and it will permeate the national fabric on its own (or perhaps it won't). But there is no ready replacement for a national language that has been around since the founding of this country.

People are free to speak what they want and thankfully, Pakistan is not a country that is forcing any language upon the masses. Which is why the provincial languages thrive along with the national and official languages.

 

[Oscar]

Neither of what you propose is feasible. It is a language and it will permeate the national fabric on its own (or perhaps it won't). But there is no ready replacement for a national language that has been around since the founding of this country.

People are free to speak what they want and thankfully, Pakistan is not a country that is forcing any language upon the masses. Which is why the provincial languages thrive along with the national and official languages.

I get what you’re saying, and I agree that people should be free to speak their own mother tongues. But I think this understates what a common language actually does for a country. I loved this quote(ironically first heard in metal gear solid V) from Emil Cioran:

It is no nation that we inhabit, but a language.

That’s why Urdu matters in Pakistan. It was meant to serve as a common civic language across provinces, not to erase Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, Balochi, or any other regional language.

My disagreement is that Urdu has not really been allowed to develop in a serious, equal way. Pakistan ended up with an English dominant elite sphere and an Urdu medium public sphere, and that language split has overlapped with class and opportunity in ways that deepen inequality.

So the issue is not “force Urdu on everyone.” The issue is that if the state names Urdu as the national language but does not invest in high quality education, administration, and knowledge production through it, then Urdu becomes symbolic while English remains the real gatekeeper to power and mobility.

In that sense, the problem is not the existence of provincial languages which should absolutely thrive. The problem is that Pakistan never fully implemented Urdu in a way that democratized access, and that failure indirectly contributed to social fragmentation, class barriers, and exclusion at multiple levels.

 

[Blain2]

I get what you’re saying, and I agree that people should be free to speak their own mother tongues. But I think this understates what a common language actually does for a country. I loved this quote(ironically first heard in metal gear solid V) from Emil Cioran:

It is no nation that we inhabit, but a language.

That’s why Urdu matters in Pakistan. It was meant to serve as a common civic language across provinces, not to erase Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, Balochi, or any other regional language.

My disagreement is that Urdu has not really been allowed to develop in a serious, equal way. Pakistan ended up with an English dominant elite sphere and an Urdu medium public sphere, and that language split has overlapped with class and opportunity in ways that deepen inequality.

So the issue is not “force Urdu on everyone.” The issue is that if the state names Urdu as the national language but does not invest in high quality education, administration, and knowledge production through it, then Urdu becomes symbolic while English remains the real gatekeeper to power and mobility.

In that sense, the problem is not the existence of provincial languages which should absolutely thrive. The problem is that Pakistan never fully implemented Urdu in a way that democratized access, and that failure indirectly contributed to social fragmentation, class barriers, and exclusion at multiple levels.

Good points. I think what you say is 100% on-point. I had a discussion with a friend a while back where we were comparing the vast difference in the way the Turkish language has evolved fantastically well by absorbing scientific/technology taxonomy and vocabulary seamlessly through proper translation and articulation whereas Urdu has lagged behind miserably.

Nothing irks me more than this bloody sign in front of the Supreme Court of Pakistan. These good-for-nothings could not come up with an apt translation of Supreme Court of Pakistan (which exists and is simply "Alaa Adliya-e-Pakistan") in Urdu so these illiterates simply transliterated "Of" in Urdu. By doing these types of things, they do two things. One is the m#/b# of Urdu and second is the horrendous murder of English pronunciation where "of" is now pronounced all over Pakistan as "Aaf". Essentially two ugly birds with one stone.

Same goes for "Government", where the entire masses now pronounce the word "gorement" because of the way it is written in Urdu instead of just sticking to "Hakoomat". Stupidity-galore all over.

 

[Kambojaric]

Good points. I think what you say is 100% on-point. I had a discussion with a friend a while back where we were comparing the vast difference in the way the Turkish language has evolved fantastically well by absorbing scientific/technology taxonomy and vocabulary seamlessly through proper translation and articulation whereas Urdu has lagged behind miserably.

Nothing irks me more than this bloody sign in front of the Supreme Court of Pakistan. These good-for-nothings could not come up with an apt translation of Supreme Court of Pakistan (which exists and is simply "Alaa Adliya-e-Pakistan") in Urdu so these illiterates simply transliterated "Of" in Urdu. By doing these types of things, they do two things. One is the m#/b# of Urdu and second is the horrendous murder of English pronunciation where "of" is now pronounced all over Pakistan as "Aaf". Essentially two ugly birds with one stone.

Same goes for "Government", where the entire masses now pronounce the word "gorement" because of the way it is written in Urdu instead of just sticking to "Hakoomat". Stupidity-galore all over.

View attachment 196041

I can top the Supreme Court with Dilli Darwaza. The locals actually call it the correct way linguistically but some genius from the tourism marketing department made the decision to use gate instead.

Overall I agree. As long as the elite academic institutions teach in English, Urdu will remain a second player. Not forgotten but most certainly overlooked where it matters.

 

[El Sidd]

"but it has failed the task of national language"

This seems like a personal opinion to me and which you are certainly entitled to.

You can bet on the fact that Pakistanis will continue taking up Urdu faster and more agreeably than English.

As far as this negative baggage with Urdu, nobody cares about what happened in EP/BD any longer. Most actually have no idea.

It is a valid argument that Urdu has failed. It was meant for nation building not for ordering oily foods in a convenient manner. Urdu cannot compete with English. Its a mismatch.

And ofcourse nobody cares about EP/BD because there's no concept of nation or super-nation ad envisioned by founding uncles.

Sir, they have been brainwashed into believing Pakistan belonged to them or that they willingly released it into our care.

Quite contrarily, we took Pakistan from the British occupier. Nehru and Gandhi were not party to these negotiations.

These people have a distinction of making an identity out of a racial slur and a derogatory term I.e. Indian.

Neither of what you propose is feasible. It is a language and it will permeate the national fabric on its own (or perhaps it won't). But there is no ready replacement for a national language that has been around since the founding of this country.

People are free to speak what they want and thankfully, Pakistan is not a country that is forcing any language upon the masses. Which is why the provincial languages thrive along with the national and official languages.

Pakistan forces English upon the masses with incentives of better understanding of the law and merit to employment.

 

[newb3e]

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new anthem after marka e haq and peacemaking!

all hail the king!

 

[Blain2]

Pakistan forces English upon the masses with incentives of better understanding of the law and merit to employment.

Sorry, that is not Pakistan forcing, rather the global economy creating value for those who can speak/communicate in the Lingua Franca, i.e., Angraizi.

Pakistan's government is guilty of not enabling the masses, but those who do get access to the language will naturally get ahead because they get exposure to more opportunities.