PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll

[Ali_Baba]

The Main Argument against it is, the J-10‘s Radar isn’t far-reaching enough.

In a multi-domain data linked environment, the capabilities of the host platform do not matter as much as they used to, so this should not be a factor for Pakistan.

The advantage of the PL17 would be to take out India' s AEW&C, Standoff Jammers and EW platforms that are just behind the front lines.

PL17 availability will be more factored on politics, then integration capability or platform limitations.

 

[Taimoor]

Yeah, but think they were literally in Iraqi airspace at the time, could be wrong.

This is more likely what we will endup facing.

Golden Horizon missile: What we know of Israel's offer to India

Golden Horizon missile: Reports say Israel has offered India an air-launched ballistic missile ahead of PM Narendra Modi’s visit. The weapon, said to reach hypersonic speeds, could outpace BrahMos, though no deal has been officially confirmed.

www.deccanherald.com

They can theoretically launch these while remaining 500Kms , well within S400 envelop, away from Pakistani airspace, giving the missile 300kms ingress into Pakistan. PL17 will introduce this capability where IAF has to really operate right at the edge with no room for error.

 

[White Privilege]

The Main Argument against it is, the J-10‘s Radar isn’t far-reaching enough.

Also piling heavier and heavier missiles on a light weight air superiority fighter won't be helpful either. It will alter the combat profile and require more jets to fulfill the same mission. Instead Pakistan may need to look at 'offensive SAMS' as a first shoot capability, like the Indians tried to do with S-400. May be a high speed ground based multi stage missile with a big booster and smaller dart, that can hit targets uptill 500 km, to be used using targetting info from AWACS....

 

[White Privilege]

I suppose in next conflict, IAF will stay far away from the range of PL15s, well within the coverage of their AD. We should be keeping track of their acquisition of the standoff weapons, that will give us clear indications as to what they are upto. I am 100% sure, they will be going for Israeli ALBMs, which will allow them to remain under S400 coverage. PL15s will not be able to reach those ranges.

Another important lesson for us and an objective for the rocket force, conduct SEAD operations upfront and destroy enemy AD before our fighters arrive on station.

 

[Corax]

"Wang Haifeng (Vice Chief Designer of J-20, Chief Designer of J-36) disclosed that J-10C performed the lock/shoot of Rafales/Mirage/Su/Mig using its own radar. Erieeye has enough fidelity to provide general direction but not fire control level guidance."

Mid course guidance provided by AWACs is not the same thing as fire control guidance, that's the whole point. The PL15s onboard seeker takes over from there.

 

[rafale]

I dont think pl-17 is coming. Think about it, pl-15 was their new standard missile to beat aim-120D and paf only got it after committing to j-10C which they were evidently hesitant about. Pl-17 by comparison is their premier long range stick much newer than pl-15 and only really used by j-16s, the only missile in the world thats comparable is aim-174 and that only entered service last year. PAF has no need for these stupidly long range and coversely stupidly expensive sticks when we already hold decisive advantage and even indias best option of r-37M cant fully beat

You have a point, but PL15 has already beat the AIM120D or equal it.........PL15s are now rumored to be (in reality) 250km range missiles (depending on launch kinematics of course) and PAF already bagged the kill at 180km. AIM120D is (as per public info so far) 180km missile.

So yes you are right that PAF already has the 200km BVR combat tested and proven.

But getting PL17 pushes it further, no way Indians will make the same mistake again. they thought that flying 100km away from border they would be safe and they found out the hard way that when PL15 comes for you, no amount of SPECTRA or Israeli or Russian Jammers/EW is gonna save you......So if they get a whiff that PAF has PL17s, they would stay 300-400 km away, which in fact works in PAF and Pakistan's favor, because now all of a sudden, a lot of their Air launched munitions are useless since they don't have the 400km-500km range to strike inside Pakistan. They will be left using the longer range ALBM or ALCMs if any, which means Pakistan gets a longer time to track and react to them.

The size of PL17 as shown publicly means it is indeed a true ultra long range monster and that range you would want accurate target data which would be easier to glean off a large aircraft like AWACs or Air refuelers or the shitty SU30MKIs.

You can see the size of PL15 and it already flies 200-250km.......imagine how much range PL17 would have in reality.......

 

[alphapak]

The short answer is PAF collected a lot of useful info during the 4 day war.

New batch of J10's are going to way more advanced then the previous batch, thanks to the info colleccted and lessons learned.

I think Indians are getting the 26 Rafale F4 version, this is something elese that PAF
have to think about.

 

[lightning f57]

In a multi-domain data linked environment, the capabilities of the host platform do not matter as much as they used to, so this should not be a factor for Pakistan.

The advantage of the PL17 would be to take out India' s AEW&C, Standoff Jammers and EW platforms that are just behind the front lines.

PL17 availability will be more factored on politics, then integration capability or platform limitations.

I think PL17 primary aim is to take out those big fat flying aircraft, refuellers, AWACs, EW, logistics.

PL16 I think is next gen A2A missile, successor of PL15.

 

[Ibbi32]

You have a point, but PL15 has already beat the AIM120D or equal it.........PL15s are now rumored to be (in reality) 250km range missiles (depending on launch kinematics of course) and PAF already bagged the kill at 180km. AIM120D is (as per public info so far) 180km missile.

So yes you are right that PAF already has the 200km BVR combat tested and proven.

But getting PL17 pushes it further, no way Indians will make the same mistake again. they thought that flying 100km away from border they would be safe and they found out the hard way that when PL15 comes for you, no amount of SPECTRA or Israeli or Russian Jammers/EW is gonna save you......So if they get a whiff that PAF has PL17s, they would stay 300-400 km away, which in fact works in PAF and Pakistan's favor, because now all of a sudden, a lot of their Air launched munitions are useless since they don't have the 400km-500km range to strike inside Pakistan. They will be left using the longer range ALBM or ALCMs if any, which means Pakistan gets a longer time to track and react to them.

The size of PL17 as shown publicly means it is indeed a true ultra long range monster and that range you would want accurate target data which would be easier to glean off a large aircraft like AWACs or Air refuelers or the shitty SU30MKIs.

You can see the size of PL15 and it already flies 200-250km.......imagine how much range PL17 would have in reality.......

True but i dont think anyone considered the far likelier possibility of PAF accquiring pl-16 which has smaller profile than pl-15, is meant to fit in iwbs and is supposed to have same if not greater range than pl-15 of 200-300km. This is for more likely induction imo and it will be a big stipulation of j-35 deal that people forget about.

As for pl-17 problem is PAF simply doesn't have infra to support it. Think about it the thing requires a premier awacs like kj-500 to effectively use it. Likely 10+ million dollars per missile unit cost its a hard pill to swallow and makes its use limited to only high probability of kill situations, along with all the other costs in keeping and training with the missile. This is not some easy upgrade this is a full billion+ dollar pacakage to get maybe 20-30 long range sticks to use against maybe 10-20 targets in entire IAF. That kind of capability functionaly doesnt make sense

 

[rafale]

True but i dont think anyone considered the far likelier possibility of PAF accquiring pl-16 which has smaller profile than pl-15, is meant to fit in iwbs and is supposed to have same if not greater range than pl-15 of 200-300km. This is for more likely induction imo and it will be a big stipulation of j-35 deal that people forget about.

As for pl-17 problem is PAF simply doesn't have infra to support it. Think about it the thing requires a premier awacs like kj-500 to effectively use it. Likely 10+ million dollars per missile unit cost its a hard pill to swallow and makes its use limited to only high probability of kill situations, along with all the other costs in keeping and training with the missile. This is not some easy upgrade this is a full billion+ dollar pacakage to get maybe 20-30 long range sticks to use against maybe 10-20 targets in entire IAF. That kind of capability functionaly doesnt make sense

Bro, have faith. Like seriously, did PAF disappoint you in 2019 and 2025? No right?

The recent ISPR presser, the PAF firmly stated that Jeffs will be continued to be upgraded building the numbers game and technology, and meanwhile more J-10CEs will be procured. They probably waiting on Indians to sign the fleecing Rafales contract with French.

Upon question of J-35, they said they have options. Now compare that with Indians. they dont have any options for 5th Gen. So PAF will take time and make the right decision that is needed in this hour of need. Buying J-35s will be buying a whole new next gen network system. It will be the most profound and most expensive procurement for PAF.

So chill. I have full faith that PAF will inshallah do way better than IAF again.

For the first time in history, PAF has more and better options than Indians, regardless of the fact that Indians have access to western tech.

IAF will never ever go into air combat with PAF. Just understand the significance of this.

 

[rafale]

I think Indians are getting the 26 Rafale F4 version, this is something elese that PAF
have to think about.

The F4 standard barely improves upon the F3R they already have. It introduces native data linking capability, something PAF has had since 2021 and demonstrated by absolutely destroying IAF in May 2025............

Indians really have no choice. If they dont procure Rafales, it shows the system and platform is useless. If they do procure it, it will be delayed and obsolete already by the time first F4 version lands in India (which is a good 2-3 years away if they sign the contract today)

 

[m52k85]

Yeah, but I guess anything 500km plus away from Pak air space, be it fighters or AEW, aint gonna be of much threat to us.

Why so? What if 50 odd make it and disable are critical assets like front line fighters, HQ-9 radars? Then a greater portion of their fleet will be able to come close.

"Not going to be a threat to us" is a very serious asssumption and only makes it to the model in the most extreme cases.

 

[Gripen9]

I have already given you plenty of info in public domain about F16s NOT be armed with 260s. And if you read further, it lays out the integration path, starting from f22 to f35, then to f18 (becuase of carrier based ops), and it stops there, there is no mention of futher integration to other platforms like f16s.

Have you found anything in public domain to the contrary or its all hopium? With all this mind, let your imagination run wild with PAF ever getting 260s (which btw were envisaged as a response to PL15).

USAF is ordering 150-200 new F-15EX. I would think they would be integrating the 260 on those.

 

[Gripen9]

also why would they be doing a Cobra for no Reason?

In anticipation of dodging the incoming missile

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

J-10CE is a good alternative to the F-16s. Gone are the days of relying on F-16s.