Monitoring: internal ethnic tensions & ethno-politics

[hydrabadi_arab]

"Whoever does not love Afghanistan is not a Muslim or a Pashtun"

It is interesting how these human rights activists dont care for minority rights or federalism in Afghanistan but openly say it is only a Pashtun unitary country

Its only in Pakistan they do terrorism on one hand, while demanding "rights". As usual Pakistan the coward concedes to them each time.

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Out of context. Lashkar against BLA terrorists, thats what he said.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

If you guys notice Pashtun nationalists mirror very closely to Hindutva RSS

In Afghanistan, they call it a Pashtun only state and oppress & marginalise anyone of other ethnicities with zero representation, even denying them federalism. They have been committing violent genocides against them to displace them and destroy their demographics.

Now they want to grant every ethnic Pashtun a citizenship globally, but in Pakistan they cry more priviliges, more autonomy, more concessions while supporting Pashtun genocidal behaviour in Afghanistan and claiming every new land they settle in as immigrants.

Can they truly co-exist? They are a far bigger security threat than India.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

This is kinda big. An FIR has been filed against Achakzai for his speech.

@baqai can we get this thread put in the Pakistan internal security section instead of media?

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[baqai]

thread moved, this statement is on the lines of what Altaf said IMO

 

[diaspora]

thread moved, this statement is on the lines of what Altaf said IMO

Which statement of Altaf's are your referring to?

 

[baqai]

Which statement of Altaf's are your referring to?

the Anti Pakistan sentiments he delivered in his last speech after which he was banned, and i am comparing the essence of the statement not matching apple to apple statement, both had the same anti Pakistan essence

 

[delta2]

So you think racial identity doesn't matter or demographics? Then why have countries, countries traditionally represented nations that represented a commom people i.e ethnic and cultural identity. Even empires was often the conquest of a single tribe/ethnicity.

Why not one world government? It is a sort of anti-nation argument entirely. I disagree and think they do matter because racial identity defines nations, and said nations interests and hence political power play and conflicts.

Anyway back to original topic

That was not my argument.

If an ethnicity based identity becomes a platform for law, legislation and ruling, then it eventually leads to an apartheid like system.

For example, in Canada there are many ethnicities that maintain and celebrate their identities, but it never becomes a platform or a mechanism for governmental rule. When it does, it results in suffering in a multi ethnic society. The Native populations have their own reserves, each distinct from other aboriginal tribes, they have that but at the expense of not fully taking part in the overall Canadian economy. Their communities suffer in isolation because they have isolation based on their ethnicity.

 

[Goenitz]

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The thread started on tweet btw.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

That was not my argument.

If an ethnicity based identity becomes a platform for law, legislation and ruling, then it eventually leads to an apartheid like system.

For example, in Canada there are many ethnicities that maintain and celebrate their identities, but it never becomes a platform or a mechanism for governmental rule. When it does, it results in suffering in a multi ethnic society. The Native populations have their own reserves, each distinct from other aboriginal tribes, they have that but at the expense of not fully taking part in the overall Canadian economy. Their communities suffer in isolation because they have isolation based on their ethnicity.

This was the global norm until recently when immigration and minority rights became a thing.

Much of Turkey today is still like that, even their anthem talks about the Turkish race specifically.

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[Hopefully Pessimistic]

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The thread started on tweet btw.

By the way, do you have any independent opinions formed from personal critical thinking or do you just take all your information from PTI youtube videos you find online like a child being spoonfed baby food? Literally all you ever post.

You are like the perfect representation of the average overseas NPC whos opinion is exclusively formulated by what the latest propagandist is saying or glorifying.

Its hilarious to witness in real time, zero brain activity.

 

[delta2]

This was the global norm until recently when immigration and minority rights became a thing.

Much of Turkey today is still like that, even their anthem talks about the Turkish race specifically.

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Yes, and constant tribal friction, animosity and wars was also the norm, so was one ethnicity waging war against the smaller ones to wipe them out. But we should live in the past now?

That is because Turkiye is largely mostly Turkic in its make-up. So they can do so, but then at the same time they had to struggle to contain Kurdish separatism for many, many decades.

The Kurdish separatists were extremely stupid and got used by Turkiye's adversaries. Had they played their cards right they would have have a different outcome than they did. And the very reason for this "Kurdish issue" was Turkiye's ethnicity based fault lines.

If someone wants to live in the past, there is nothing anyone or anything to help them see otherwise.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Yes, and contant friction and wars was also the norm, so was one ethnicity waging war against the smaller ones.

That is because Turkiye is largely mostly Turkic in its make-up. So they can do so, but then at the same time they had to struggle to contain Kurdish separatism for many, many decades.

The Kurdish separatists were extremely stupid and got used by Turkiye's adversaries. Had they played their cards right they would have have a different outcome than they did. And the very reason for this "Kurdish issue" was Turkiye's ethnicity based fault lines.

If someone wants to live in the past, there is nothing anyone or anything to help them see otherwise.

True, but my point is that the global sentiment and atmosphere is changing, people are returning to the idea of ethnic nationalism once more and are turned off by post WW2 modern ideas of post-ethnic civic nationalism for reasons known to them (after having experienced it)

I think i went off track though I agreed with your original comment/sentiment, these guys cant be allowed to blackmail the state in Pakistan's context and state should bring down its full force on them, its better than letting them cause instability or be held hostage

 

[delta2]

True, but my point is that the global sentiment and atmosphere is changing, people are returning to the idea of ethnic nationalism once more and are turned off by post WW2 modern ideas of post-ethnic civic nationalism for reasons known to them (after having experienced it)

I think i went off track though I agreed with your original comment/sentiment, these guys cant be allowed to blackmail the state in Pakistan's context and state should bring down its full force on them, its better than letting them cause instability or be held hostage

Exactly, Pakistan is a multi-ethnic state, so in no way shape or form any kind of ethnic supremacist talk can be tolerated. People have too many problems as it is already. They need to pay bills, ensure a good education for their children, have good paying jobs and careers, and have a life of dignity and happiness among other basics. This talk of this ethnicity or that ethnicity needs to be taken care of.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Exactly, Pakistan is a multi-ethnic state, so in no way shape or form any kind of ethnic supremacist talk can be tolerated. People have too many problems as it is already. They need to pay bills, ensure a good education for their children, have good paying jobs and careers, and have a life of dignity and happiness among other basics. This talk of this ethnicity or that ethnicity needs to be taken care of.

Strongly agreed. Unfortunately despite many concessions by the Pakistani state itself (like 18th amendment autonomy) and sometimes even overrepresentation in national culture they seem to still demand more fascistic claims like expansionist ethnic states and calling for hatred, genocide of other communities, private armies and allying with Afghanistan (itself a Pashtun Zio ethno-state).

Concessions was a really stupid move imo, ethnic fascists always take lack of aggression as weakness and then demand even more. I feel like some kind of war to actually stabilise things is inevitable. Look at BLAs actions and this Pashton fascist.

Pakistan should be a hard state in practicse with long term assertive policies

 

[delta2]

Strongly agreed. Unfortunately despite many concessions by the Pakistani state itself (like 18th amendment autonomy) and sometimes even overrepresentation in national culture they seem to still demand more fascistic claims like expansionist ethnic states and calling for hatred, genocide of other communities, private armies and allying with Afghanistan (itself a Pashtun Zio ethno-state).

Concessions was a really stupid move imo, ethnic fascists always take lack of aggression as weakness and then demand even more. I feel like some kind of war to actually stabilise things is inevitable. Look at BLAs actions and this Pashton fascist.

Pakistan should be a hard state in practicse with long term assertive policies

Not much can be done politically in a strong, hard way by an illegitimate leadership which was planted by foreign powers and influences.

The problem is that the Pakistani political strata is immune to the problems in the life of an average Pakistani, so their politics will also not reflect the needs either. They all live abroad when not in power, and treat Pakistan as an ATM machine. The bureaucracy is busy making $$ from land mafias and the natural resources are being wasted on a daily basis.


Just look at the Pakistani rivers. Most of them, especially the River Indus, just falls into the ocean and not much of it is used, all the while everyone is complaining about lack of water. They literally have rivers of fresh water being wasted and falling into the ocean every day!!

Do they not realize how many water pipelines they can build out of just one river to supply the whol country with fresh water?

The thieves and the stupidest, the most corrupt are in power in Pakistan. Imagine in a land of many rivers people complaining about lack of water!

Then there was that incident of one stupid so called "wadera" bringing a few alligators into a sweet water lake for leather for his personal shoes! That mthrfkr ruined an entire ecosystem for cheap leather for his shoes!!! Now imagine every one else in the Pakistani bureaucracy being more corrupt, greedy, and and more incompetenent than him.