Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

Salza said:
A Pakistan Air Force PAC MFI-395 Super Mushshak aircraft has unfortunately crashed today morning in Mardan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, after developing technical faults while on a training flight.

Both pilots, trainee cadets of the Pakistan Air Force Academy Asghar Khan, were martyred.
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انا للہ وانا الیہ راجعون
 
ghazi52 said:
A Pakistan Air Force PAC MFI-395 Super Mushshak aircraft has unfortunately crashed today morning in Mardan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, after developing technical faults while on a training flight.

Both pilots, trainee cadets of the Pakistan Air Force Academy Asghar Khan, were martyred.

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‏إِنَّا لِلّهِ وَإِنَّـا إِلَيْهِ رَاجِعونَ
May Allah increase their ranks in Jannah
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Sad news. Flight safety remains a major problem in Pakistan armed forced, with regular helicopter and aircraft crashes. If the issue is expensive spare parts, they should task Kamra and other facilities with making these spare parts domestically.
 
Watandar said:
Sad news. Flight safety remains a major problem in Pakistan armed forced, with regular helicopter and aircraft crashes. If the issue is expensive spare parts, they should task Kamra and other facilities with making these spare parts domestically.
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What is the comparison or KPIs competitive?

saying spare parts the primary cause is an oversimplification since globally 70 to 80% of aviation accidents stem from human error rather than hardware failures..

The IAF is plenty evidence that larger budgets do not translate to lower crashes.

You lost a Mi-17 because you are regularly operating them at the edge of their performance envelope BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONS so you are already increasing the probability of things going wrong.

KPIs that matter are crashes per 100,000 flight hours weighted for terrain and operational tempo, near miss reporting rates, and time between incident and published investigation findings and until those numbers are publicly tracked and acted on institutionally, swapping out spare parts changes nothing about the underlying risk.

The issue needs to be looked at from culture, accountability and flight hours… not spare parts.

Btw - Singapore AF - very few accidents - and a corporal can ground aircraft based on his read. But look at the size of the Air Force - education level of the entire country where a corporal can call for grounding of a jet.

Can you claim similar conditions for PAF or even Pakistani culture?

@side-winder
 
IMHO this crash was uncharacteritic of a Mashak. The aircraft struck at 90 degrees at full throttle on the road. As per my info no mayday call was given to ATC. I wish that PAF ACI Team investigate this accident to determine the cause of such a catatstrophic event involving a gentle propeller based trainer aircraft.
 
The problem with ab initio trainers is the lack of safety features, no ejection seats. They could install a parachute recovery system in the aircraft, but that would require a minimum altitude required for deployment to work effectively.
 
Par 5 said:
IMHO this crash was uncharacteritic of a Mashak. The aircraft struck at 90 degrees at full throttle on the road. As per my info no mayday call was given to ATC. I wish that PAF ACI Team investigate this accident to determine the cause of such a catatstrophic event involving a gentle propeller based trainer aircraft.
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A previous Mushak crash had an elevator(or aileron) cable snap so if something similar happened the pilots instinct would be to try and get power for climb.

If the elevator is snapped however that would make no difference
 
Oscar said:
A previous Mushak crash had an elevator(or aileron) cable snap so if something similar happened the pilots instinct would be to try and get power for climb.

If the elevator is snapped however that would make no difference
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Is it hydraulic or direct cable in the Mushak?

But sad week for Pakistani aviation, first the Mi-17 and now this. Signs of an aging fleet? Maintenance issues? Or just random occurences?
 
Jango said:
Is it hydraulic or direct cable in the Mushak?

But sad week for Pakistani aviation, first the Mi-17 and now this. Signs of an aging fleet? Maintenance issues? Or just random occurences?
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https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/pakistan-air-force-news-discussions.76/post-1315261

And aircraft lifespan could be a factor but without an open accident report once can speculate on what we know.

However, not always an issue of aging fleet.
After all a B-52 just went down with all 8 lost.
The Indians lost a AN-32.
A skydiving plane went down as well here.

So, how was it being operated - aircraft life span - trainers can go on for decades but depends on structural fatigue - the airframe could be fine and maybe the cable had reached its lifespan, or a hinge or it was not installed correctly after a maintenance job.. The speculation is endless and does not correlate to a pattern(e.g. Mig-21 issues in IAF or F-16 early crashes in USAF service).
 
Oscar said:
A previous Mushak crash had an elevator(or aileron) cable snap so if something similar happened the pilots instinct would be to try and get power for climb.

If the elevator is snapped however that would make no difference
Click to expand...
It could be any reason really. But at the first sign of trouble, pilots give a Mayday which in this case was not given unfortunately prior crash
 
Salza said:
A Pakistan Air Force PAC MFI-395 Super Mushshak aircraft has unfortunately crashed today morning in Mardan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, after developing technical faults while on a training flight.

Both pilots, trainee cadets of the Pakistan Air Force Academy Asghar Khan, were martyred.
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RIP 🙏
 
Oscar said:
https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/pakistan-air-force-news-discussions.76/post-1315261

And aircraft lifespan could be a factor but without an open accident report once can speculate on what we know.

However, not always an issue of aging fleet.
After all a B-52 just went down with all 8 lost.
The Indians lost a AN-32.
A skydiving plane went down as well here.

So, how was it being operated - aircraft life span - trainers can go on for decades but depends on structural fatigue - the airframe could be fine and maybe the cable had reached its lifespan, or a hinge or it was not installed correctly after a maintenance job.. The speculation is endless and does not correlate to a pattern(e.g. Mig-21 issues in IAF or F-16 early crashes in USAF service).
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US also lost an F18, same day Russians lost Tu22 Bomber. Insane 5 days for mil-aviation watchers.

 
Sad day, but from a clear cut statistical point of view, the MF-17 fleet is doing well safety wise. As other have pointed out, the issue is numbers being killed/injured when they do actually crash. Obviously you cannot put ejection seats into screening aircraft like this, th point is their slow speed usually enables a relatively safe emergency landing. That did not happen in this case so we will need to wait for the investigation. Big losses for the families, also now big losses for PAF and Navy, as I imagine pilot requirements for both services increasing
 
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