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[Oscar]

to the first point

we initially thought maybe it was licensing, or tooling, etc etc, there had to be more to it

but unfortunately, we confirmed that not to be the case, and that this was accurate and there was no tot, licensing, etc.

it was the catalyst behind REK, the khaal utaarna

So someone actually approved $1 million for a range extension kit from China?

Im not blaming the Chinese here - but who approved it?

 

[FuturePAF]

Dont think all the money went to China if this wasnt a typo in the report.
However if it was a typo even then its ridiculous.

The Russian UMPK costs around $20k per kit - so even with Export premium 100 kits - lets say LS-6s would land around $5-20M total. Not $100m.

Maybe @Michael can shed a light on costs for LS-6.

however, the issue here ISNT if it was a typo - it is that NO ONE WITH ANY ACTUAL AGENCY - lets say in Parliament or Senate or even the government has the knowledge or ability to question this.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE - not $100m being real or typo.

Unfortunately, the only mechanism is the few in the military with both honest bones and also those who are willing to risk their career.

And this is why oversight, preferably civilian, IMHO, with technical knowledge, is needed so limited resources aren’t squandered.

 

[Oscar]

And this is why oversight, preferably civilian, IMHO, with technical knowledge, is needed so limited resources aren’t squandered.

And this is impossible by design within Pakistan’s system

 

[Ak01]

So someone actually approved $1 million for a range extension kit from China?

Im not blaming the Chinese here - but who approved it?

yes, and unfortunately no clue, howeverrrrrrrrr, we know the kind of arm twisting that occurs, so who knows what the circumstances were

 

[Oscar]

yes, and unfortunately no clue, howeverrrrrrrrr, we know the kind of arm twisting that occurs, so who knows what the circumstances were

Other than the single line item on the report - are there any other details attached to that?

 

[Ak01]

Other than the single line item on the report - are there any other details attached to that?

unfortunately not in the report

 

[The Sundance Kid]

Regarding the helicopter discussion. Let's be real, the Mi-17 series is sticking around for a long time.

We've got some of the most challenging terrain from high altitude mountainous regions to hot deserts and the Mi-17 series is the most proven rough and austere condition workhorse. Not to mention the upfront costs for training new technicians, pilots and ground crews for a new platform.

 

[rafale]

And this is why oversight, preferably civilian, IMHO, with technical knowledge, is needed so limited resources aren’t squandered.

Without knowing the costs and what else came with the costs, we really can't comment.

Not saying the procurement is completely transparent or even justified, but if you put civilian bureaucratic road blocks in every procurement, you will end up like India, Procuring new combat jets and submarines in decades, not years. India is a shining example of how the civilian military distance, at times leads to bigger problems.....and even then there are news of kickbacks being involved. I mean, in South Asia, you really can't separate corruption, waste and pure incompetence in procurement affairs because that's where the real money is exchanging hands.

I am surprised at the low cost of CM-400s though, 60 missiles for 100 million, that's barely 2 million each for a high tech missile........so this report doesn't really reveal the full picture.

 

[rafale]

Dont think all the money went to China if this wasnt a typo in the report.
However if it was a typo even then its ridiculous.

The Russian UMPK costs around $20k per kit - so even with Export premium 100 kits - lets say LS-6s would land around $5-20M total. Not $100m.

Maybe @Michael can shed a light on costs for LS-6.

however, the issue here ISNT if it was a typo - it is that NO ONE WITH ANY ACTUAL AGENCY - lets say in Parliament or Senate or even the government has the knowledge or ability to question this.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE - not $100m being real or typo.

Unfortunately, the only mechanism is the few in the military with both honest bones and also those who are willing to risk their career.

But what about the CM-400 costs? 60 missiles for 100 million? Seems like an actual good deal for what the missile brings in terms of capability..........

Aren't western equivalent twice/thrice the price?

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

yes, and unfortunately no clue, howeverrrrrrrrr, we know the kind of arm twisting that occurs, so who knows what the circumstances were

So the Chinese basically scam us knowing we have no alternative

 

[Ak01]

So the Chinese basically scam us knowing we have no alternative

i know of specific examples where this has been the case, its nothing new, i guess its not a scam because our side also agreed to it/jumped in bed with this, partially because we had no choice i guess

 

[FuturePAF]

And this is impossible by design within Pakistan’s system

This is why so many civilians want a change to the design of the system; to give a better feedback mechanism, that ultimately benefits all in the long run. Alas.

 

[FuturePAF]

Without knowing the costs and what else came with the costs, we really can't comment.

Not saying the procurement is completely transparent or even justified, but if you put civilian bureaucratic road blocks in every procurement, you will end up like India, Procuring new combat jets and submarines in decades, not years. India is a shining example of how the civilian military distance, at times leads to bigger problems.....and even then there are news of kickbacks being involved. I mean, in South Asia, you really can't separate corruption, waste and pure incompetence in procurement affairs because that's where the real money is exchanging hands.

I am surprised at the low cost of CM-400s though, 60 missiles for 100 million, that's barely 2 million each for a high tech missile........so this report doesn't really reveal the full picture.

It’s not about civilians without expertise, it’s about subject matter experts, producing research opinions on what is out there and what could be done at home, and in what time.

Sure, the numbers could be off, but if even close to those numbers, one would hope someone was in place to ask could it be done cheaper.