PTI news, updates and discussions part ll

hasssanali8998 said:
to bhaiyon when is the next protest
havent seen a pti protest in ages
boriat ho rahi he
Click to expand...
We have put it on hold in respect for Maryam Nawaz’s plastic surgery which was very complicated and caused her face to become like a pig . As soon as she gets better we will be back .
 
As I predicted, PTI is finally being given some breathing room, a little political space to stand again.

The Establishment seems ready to bring them into the new setup, but the sticking point is IK. He doesn’t want to sign off on the terms and conditions being pushed his way. And that’s where the tension sits.

But the reality is simple, this is a huge opening for PTI. A chance to plug into the hybrid model and stay relevant in the next phase.
Because from inside jail, IK can only do so much. The party has to decide whether it wants to move or stay frozen.

And I genuinely believe both China and Saudi Arabia want to see a stable Pakistan. They’ve invested too much to watch the country spiral endlessly. Let’s hope the Establishment finally understands that. As Faisal Vawda bluntly put it, five thousand people are holding 240 million Pakistanis hostage. That’s the tragedy of our politics.

And interestingly, Gobar Arya made a similar point, saying that 25 to 30 families have effectively held Pakistan hostage. Different voices, same underlying truth.
 
Last edited:
Jango007 said:
Your posts always makes me feel as if I am arguing with my wife:) I can never land a winning punch because I loose track of what we are actually talking about .

Heads I win, tails you lose.

You first compared my loyalty to baradari system …. Which I clearly am not because I despise Pandoo mentality and having born and raised in Karachi that nonsense was never part of our upbringing despite us being from a Kashmiri Punjabi background .

We all need role models …. Kids need parents as a role model and grownup needs a successful person ( success can be defined in many shapes and forms and in my case an honourable corruption free principled person and not rich or celebrity) …. Role model who can teach me something I don’t already have … my whole life I have strived to become an honest person and thus my liking to people like Edhi , my dad and Ik.


“
Not a picture of justice.
Not a symbol of anti-corruption.
His face.
That's not following an idea but venerating a man.”

Sometimes a picture says thousand words … a closed book with a million good ideas can be represented by a picture … I didn’t ask for the pic but the bat came with it. To me bat alone would have been a great symbol of a great man but I didn’t choose to have his pic on it.


“Every exit is blocked.
This hypothetical better leader never gets a real chance to exist because the current one's shortcomings are always someone else's fault. IK cannot be flawed to you so YOU WILL NEVER SEE A BETTER LEADER... ZInda hai Bhutto ZInda hai all over again. Messiah, cult - and then it gets more acerbic.”


Again Thats not true at all. I have in my past posts criticized IK as a mediocre politician because he trusted snakes and let them get too close to him . A smart politician will never fall for this fatal fault…. His choice of wife leaves a lot to desire ( but it’s a rather personal business ) and his worthy principles are also his biggest obstacles as a politician in one of the most corrupt country in the world .

When I got my first job in Toronto , I had a horrible experience of working for the owner who ended up in jail for few years for beating his wife almost to death . In his private office hung a picture stating top 10 things that will make one hapoy …. Number one was who you end up marrying …. I hope you get the point here .

“Saying you are replacing tribal loyalty with leader loyalty isn't the same as replacing it with principled thinking. Educated people form cults too and they just call them movements.”

And who teaches principled thinking ?? Is it possible to learn anything without a teacher ? And politics and awakening without a leader ? One day IK is going to die and yes some will worship him like a saint but not me …. His principled politics and honesty will forever stay with me for as long as I live .
Click to expand...

And I feel like I am talking to someone projecting his own problems to try and justify his own changing of goal posts. Or perhaps you dont have a good argument to defend your role model?

If you want to talk role models - sure, I have plenty instead of one in terms of how they approach particular issues.

But if the role model for principles is IK then you have pretty poor role models.
And as I said before - your entire post still is filled with " because the current one's shortcomings are always someone else's fault. IK cannot be flawed to you so YOU WILL NEVER SEE A BETTER LEADER"

He is a poor politician SO he lets the snakes in - not that he is susceptible to compromising on his principles for his political gain(even if he miscalculates).

His wife is a poor choice - BUT its his personal matter even if she makes him compromise on his so called principles.. IK the saint..

So yes, to use your wife analogy you are rather good at the female aspect of "Even if it is wrong it is right".
 
Goenitz said:
View attachment 202549
10 years more sentence wee given today
Click to expand...
Collective total of sentences handed to a group of PTI leaders together, not to Ejaz Chaudhry alone. Misrepresented false news even if showing injustice.

For each of them it may be 70 odd years or so. Still idiotic but if you compare to what Zia did to Bhutto's loyalists it seems the Fauj is still treading carefully. Under Zia - Nine political leaders murdered, thirteen committed suicide in custody, fourteen executed which was truly brutal.
 
Oscar said:
And I feel like I am talking to someone projecting his own problems to try and justify his own changing of goal posts. Or perhaps you dont have a good argument to defend your role model?

If you want to talk role models - sure, I have plenty instead of one in terms of how they approach particular issues.

But if the role model for principles is IK then you have pretty poor role models.
And as I said before - your entire post still is filled with " because the current one's shortcomings are always someone else's fault. IK cannot be flawed to you so YOU WILL NEVER SEE A BETTER LEADER"

He is a poor politician SO he lets the snakes in - not that he is susceptible to compromising on his principles for his political gain(even if he miscalculates).

His wife is a poor choice - BUT its his personal matter even if she makes him compromise on his so called principles.. IK the saint..

So yes, to use your wife analogy you are rather good at the female aspect of "Even if it is wrong it is right".
Click to expand...


No I am not justifying his weaknesses but recognizing the obstacles he faced in governing including the role played by his associates and family.

You on the other hand have made ZERO justification why he is a failure , not a good role model etc etc . You seem to like ranting about he is just not good and TRUST me bro.

As I said earlier I dont even know why you are arguing about something with out facts and figures other than bringing up usual unverified and nonsensical argument like baradari and such .

I am happy with my role model and good luck to you with yours …. At the end of the day it’s all about who played role in your life . If your role model made a difference in your life good for you … it really depends on what you are looking to improve in your life or character you are trying to improve .

Patwaris role model is Nawaz sharif because vast majiority of them see absolutely nothing wrong with the corruption .

As for the wife analogy your logic is when after presenting all the facts and figures wife declares “ leave it …. You will not understand “ .
 
Jango007 said:
No I am not justifying his weaknesses but recognizing the obstacles he faced in governing including the role played by his associates and family.

You on the other hand have made ZERO justification why he is a failure , not a good role model etc etc . You seem to like ranting about he is just not good and TRUST me bro.

As I said earlier I dont even know why you are arguing about something with out facts and figures other than bringing up usual unverified and nonsensical argument like baradari and such .

I am happy with my role model and good luck to you with yours …. At the end of the day it’s all about who played role in your life . If your role model made a difference in your life good for you … it really depends on what you are looking to improve in your life or character you are trying to improve .

Patwaris role model is Nawaz sharif because vast majiority of them see absolutely nothing wrong with the corruption .

As for the wife analogy your logic is when after presenting all the facts and figures wife declares “ leave it …. You will not understand “ .
Click to expand...
The irony here is genuinely impressive and worth pausing on.

You started off by asking for "facts and figures" and criticizing arguments made without evidence. Then, in the same breath, you defined a good role model as "whoever made a difference in your life". LOL

A standard so subjective it literally justifies anyone's choice of role model, including the Patwari's Nawaz Sharif. By your own framework, if corruption delivered someone's road, hospital, or job, Nawaz is a perfectly valid role model. You've accidentally argued yourself into the exact position you're criticizing.

Then there's the obstacles argument. Recognizing the obstacles someone faced is fine AND necessary, even, for honest analysis. But you've constructed a closed loop: his successes are his own, his failures belong to his associates, his family, the establishment, the judiciary, the IMF, and a global conspiracy. At what point does personal accountability enter the picture for your role model, by the same standard you're demanding it enter for everyone else's?

The "wife analogy" you used actually describes your own position more accurately than mine. When presented with specific conduct such the NRO u-turn, the cipher theatrics, the economic decisions, the associates he chose and defended your response isn't engagement with those specifics.

It's "you just don't understand him,"
"you can't see past your bias," and "I'm happy with my choice."

And this is where when people chide you as cultists and "Imran Aleh Salam" are not wrong. You are not describing just a role model and leader but an article of faith for you.

Faith , BY DEFINITION - doesnt require facts and figures which makes demanding them from others while operating purely on it yourself the most revealing part of this entire exchange.
 
Oscar said:
The irony here is genuinely impressive and worth pausing on.

You started off by asking for "facts and figures" and criticizing arguments made without evidence. Then, in the same breath, you defined a good role model as "whoever made a difference in your life". LOL

A standard so subjective it literally justifies anyone's choice of role model, including the Patwari's Nawaz Sharif. By your own framework, if corruption delivered someone's road, hospital, or job, Nawaz is a perfectly valid role model. You've accidentally argued yourself into the exact position you're criticizing.

Then there's the obstacles argument. Recognizing the obstacles someone faced is fine AND necessary, even, for honest analysis. But you've constructed a closed loop: his successes are his own, his failures belong to his associates, his family, the establishment, the judiciary, the IMF, and a global conspiracy. At what point does personal accountability enter the picture for your role model, by the same standard you're demanding it enter for everyone else's?

The "wife analogy" you used actually describes your own position more accurately than mine. When presented with specific conduct such the NRO u-turn, the cipher theatrics, the economic decisions, the associates he chose and defended your response isn't engagement with those specifics.

It's "you just don't understand him,"
"you can't see past your bias," and "I'm happy with my choice."

And this is where when people chide you as cultists and "Imran Aleh Salam" are not wrong. You are not describing just a role model and leader but an article of faith for you.

Faith , BY DEFINITION - doesnt require facts and figures which makes demanding them from others while operating purely on it yourself the most revealing part of this entire exchange.
Click to expand...


You don’t pass the smell test for me …

You are someone who is so blinded in his argument to make others believe that his version and belief system if worthy of
Praise and listening but someone who chooses to have a role model as a person of immaculate reputation and stellar personal character is a cultist and a blind follower.

“You started off by asking for "facts and figures" and criticizing arguments made without evidence. Then, in the same breath, you defined a good role model as "whoever made a difference in your life". LOL”

Did you actually read what you wrote or your comprehension lacks the understanding that something that made a real difference in my life is itself the best fact and figures for me . On a personal level ever since I got introduced to the projects such as Namal , SK Hospital and Indus hospital etc and learned about the thought and vision behind these projects I realized I want to have the brains behind such visionary projects as my role
Model. Simple .


“A standard so subjective it literally justifies anyone's choice of role model, including the Patwari's Nawaz Sharif. By your own framework, if corruption delivered someone's road, hospital, or job, Nawaz is a perfectly valid role model. You've accidentally argued yourself into the exact position you're criticizing.”

sorry …. Forgive my French but what an i……argument …. Nawaz Sharif NEVER brought development through any project …. His Pandoo vision and rule brought corruption , loans and nepotism that has practically destroyed every single institute innPakistan .

How can you compare my standard of role model to a public toilet level politician of Nawaz tubbar ?

Make me upset my friend for your lack of
Understanding of what role models are meant to be .

You seem to support The argument that agar khata hai to lagata bhi hai …. A typical Patwari mentality that reflects the depth of moral and ethical surrender .


“Then there's the obstacles argument. Recognizing the obstacles someone faced is fine AND necessary, even, for honest analysis. But you've constructed a closed loop: his successes are his own, his failures belong to his associates, his family, the establishment, the judiciary, the IMF, and a global conspiracy. At what point does personal accountability enter the picture for your role model, by the same standard you're demanding it enter for everyone else's?”


Please go back and read my previous posts . I clearly stated that his rigid principles are the biggest obstacles in him becoming a good politician in a corrupt country like Pakistan . Our systems are like raw sewage and if you choose to enter this system you will have to swim in raw sewerage ….. for me it’s too ling of a topic to discuss this late in the evening .
However your whole effort to somehow prove me a cultist is in vain because you are shooting with a gun pointing at yourself .


It's "you just don't understand him,"
"you can't see past your bias," and "I'm happy with my choice."

And this is where when people chide you as cultists and "Imran Aleh Salam" are not wrong. You are not describing just a role model and leader but an article of faith for you”

Truly a hypocritical statement …. So as long as I subscribe to your point of view and see world through your broken lens I will be normal in your eyes … perhaps become a little morally and ethically corrupt will make me more blend in your version of the society ? Is this the goal of the argument here ? Then my friend you will have to sleep alone with your ideas .

Appreciating an honest person who has sacrificed so much personally for the good of his nation is probably a crime
In your eyes but again I don’t know where your moral compass points and which way your ethical standards rest.

Your argument reminds me of one of my desi aunti patient who is recovering from cancer and while talking to me she stated with confidence ….” Allah ka Shaukar hai I feel well and I go out and drink instead of sitting at home “.

Do you see anything contradictory or wired in this statement …. Her article of faith is still Islam but her thinking , actions and life style is not .

A person like her may not be a role model of strength and perseverance for me but to you she may sound strong and a fighter .
Articles of faith exist at different levels and interpretation….. I choose mine , she did hers and you can also choose yours . But you cannot tell me I am wrong and you are the inly right one .

You are taking faith very lightly …. My entire existence , functioning and actions are based on my faith and my faith tells me follow what is right and reject what is wrong . No you don’t need a scientific equation or a super computer to prove that my faith exists and is right.

Try my way and you will see the truth as well or you can stop being one of “ asan tay shikayat he Laney way” ( I only exist to complain ).
 
Even prostitutes are more respectable in my eyes than the rulers running the system, judiciary giving them
Legitimacy and GHQ protecting the bastard system they have given birth to :


www.bbc.com

گلگت بلتستان انتخابات میں کوئی بھی سیٹ جیتے بغیر استحکام پاکستان پارٹی حکومت سازی میں اہم فریق کیسے بنی؟ - BBC News اردو

اگرچہ گلگت بلتستان میں تین ماہ قبل رجسٹر ہونے والی استحکام پاکستان پارٹی کا کوئی بھی امیدوار انتخابات میں کامیاب نہیں ہو پایا مگر چار آزاد امیدواروں کی شمولیت سے یہ خطے کی تیسری بڑی سیاسی جماعت بن کر اُبھری ہے اور اب حکومت سازی کے عمل میں اس کا کردار اہم ہو گیا ہے۔
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


What’s cooking? Is Establishment tired of form 47 government? Instead of metric failed MNA taking over Federal Ministries, establishment should push for technocrats handling it.

If establishment allows technocrats to run federal ministries within a clear constitutional and institutional framework, they will certainly will
outperform politicians.
 
Jango007 said:
Even prostitutes are more respectable in my eyes than the rulers running the system, judiciary giving them
Legitimacy and GHQ protecting the bastard system they have given birth to :


www.bbc.com

گلگت بلتستان انتخابات میں کوئی بھی سیٹ جیتے بغیر استحکام پاکستان پارٹی حکومت سازی میں اہم فریق کیسے بنی؟ - BBC News اردو

اگرچہ گلگت بلتستان میں تین ماہ قبل رجسٹر ہونے والی استحکام پاکستان پارٹی کا کوئی بھی امیدوار انتخابات میں کامیاب نہیں ہو پایا مگر چار آزاد امیدواروں کی شمولیت سے یہ خطے کی تیسری بڑی سیاسی جماعت بن کر اُبھری ہے اور اب حکومت سازی کے عمل میں اس کا کردار اہم ہو گیا ہے۔
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
Click to expand...
Yes, our General steal public mandate again in GB region and now Kashmiri also facing the same dilemma. And story doesn't end here...if you raise the objection " you are traitor and deserve to face death squad" . How long a democratic system running through GHQ using Form 47. As far as Nawaz PMLN, they been ruling Pakistan since 1979 and still want another 10 years to fix the system....tell you for sure Generals will grant him another 10 years. This is all mess and can t be fixed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)

Pakistan Defence Latest

Country Watch Latest

Latest Posts

Share this page

Back
Top