Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[Hazard]

If Israel asks Saudi Arabia to give up their land for Israel and bomb Mecca and give it to them, they would accept unconditionnally

They are willing to do anything on earth for the sake of Jewish's personal interests

...and the worst thing? Millions upon millions of Muslims are ready to sacrifice their lives for these Saudis.

Saudis/Emiratis are literally in bed with some of the most disgusting people ever known to mankind and yet we see folks on this very forum defending their actions.

 

[Immortals]

yeah, but what was the end goal for Hamas?

There was no end goal. It’s was a militant group who got too much power than it knew what to do with.

I don't think they could ever have pulled off a bigger or more tactically successful strike than the one they did.

Hamas was never going to overpower Israel, the point was to have enough power to prevent Israel from annexing Gaza like they are doing West Bank. Hamas was the first time that Palestinians weren’t weak like the 90’s when they threw stones at tanks.

People forget that Hamas fought Israel to multiple short ceasefire battles in the years leading up to the October attacks. But it seems that confidence lead way to delusions rather than pragmatic thinking.

they have now surrendered because they have been totally defeated, but that was always inevitable, there are severe limits on how powerful they could become in such a harsh environment.

That defeat was their own fault. They had tens of thousands of rockets and indigenous arms industry to make anti tank rockets and rockets inside Gaza. They had built deterrence from Israeli offensives, that’s not the same as meaning you can go take on Israel head to head or do offensive tactics.

But Sinwar and co were either infiltrated by Mossad who fed them this idiotic idea or were just idiots who couldn’t be content with the power they had and thought one big battle could turn the entire fortunes around. They likely thought having 100+ hostages would give them tremendous bargaining power. I don’t know. Either way they were idiots and got Gaza leveled.

 

[Hazard]

yeah, but what was the end goal for Hamas?

I don't think they could ever have pulled off a bigger or more tactically successful strike than the one they did.

they have now surrendered because they have been totally defeated, but that was always inevitable, there are severe limits on how powerful they could become in such a harsh environment.

There was no end goal, there never really is when the Muslims States plan any war. They only ever plan for the first shot - no thought is ever given to the inevitable result - that's usually left to God.

The Arab world didn't come to Palestinians aid during 2011 (don't remember the exact dates) when Israel killed 1000s of Palestinians. No one did anything, and yet Hamas went on to plan and execute 0ct 7th hoping it'd lead to a wider war and it'd be worth it - it'd been worth it had that been the case. But they forgot one crucial aspect: the middle easterns are in no mood for any wars at the moment (even if one knocked on their door). They should have been patient and waited for the Oil to run out first.

 

[Immortals]

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[Immortals]

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[Persian Gulf]

There was no end goal. It’s was a militant group who got too much power than it knew what to do with.

Hamas was never going to overpower Israel, the point was to have enough power to prevent Israel from annexing Gaza like they are doing West Bank. Hamas was the first time that Palestinians weren’t weak like the 90’s when they threw stones at tanks.

People forget that Hamas fought Israel to multiple short ceasefire battles in the years leading up to the October attacks. But it seems that confidence lead way to delusions rather than pragmatic thinking.

That defeat was their own fault. They had tens of thousands of rockets and indigenous arms industry to make anti tank rockets and rockets inside Gaza. They had built deterrence from Israeli offensives, that’s not the same as meaning you can go take on Israel head to head or do offensive tactics.

But Sinwar and co were either infiltrated by Mossad who fed them this idiotic idea or were just idiots who couldn’t be content with the power they had and thought one big battle could turn the entire fortunes around. They likely thought having 100+ hostages would give them tremendous bargaining power. I don’t know. Either way they were idiots and got Gaza leveled.

they didn't have significant deterrence, Israel 'mowed the lawn' every few years and could always destroy Gaza to defeat Hamas if they felt the threat became too strong. Hamas just beat them to it and got some punches in before Israel did it.

In a few days Hamas killed more than 1,000 Israelis (around 400 soldiers/police force). with 1,500 ballistic missiles and hundreds of drones Iran only managed to kill around 30 Israelis and 1 IDF soldier (off duty)

in the best case scenario Hamas would have traded its power / weapons for more concessions from Israel without having Gaza turned to rubble, but we can't predict what else might have happened

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

Houthis also denied it.
I've a feeling it's probably UAE not the Saudis . The Saudis use our red sea ports to deliever their oil to our mediterranean ports through sumed pipeline and from there they re-fill their oil tankers to go anywhere since bab el-mandab is closed by Houthis. So the saudis can't target their only path of their oil currently.

I'm just saying it was UAE

UAE or "Israel"

It is false flag

 

[Immortals]

But they forgot one crucial aspect: the middle easterns are in no mood for any wars at the moment (even if one knocked on their door). They should have been patient and waited for the Oil to run out first.

Israel won’t stop at Gaza. It will soon try for Jordan, Egypt and parts of Saudi Arabia. And the Arabs have hoped by normalizing relations with Israel they can stop this.

Appeasement never works. Ask Europeans who appeased Hitler.

The good news for Iran is it’s far from Israel’s borders and it will be a long long long time till Israel reaches Karbala.

However for the Arabs, their time is numbered. Iran should just try to keep Hezbollah alive and leave the issue of Palestine and Greater Israel to the Arabs to handle. They never wanted our help and see us as a greater threat then Israel so it’s time to stop trying to save the Levant.

 

[Lulldapull]

Israel won’t stop at Gaza. It will soon try for Jordan, Egypt and parts of Saudi Arabia. And the Arabs have hoped by normalizing relations with Israel they can’t stop this.

Appeasement never works. Ask Europeans who appeased Hitler.

The good news for Iran is it’s far from Israel’s borders and it will be a long long long time till Israel reaches Karbala.

However for the Arabs, their time is numbered. Iran should just try to keep Hezbollah alive and leave the issue of Palestine and Greater Israel to the Arabs to handle. They never wanted our help and see us as a greater threat then Israel so it’s time to stop trying to save the Levant.

Israel already owns all these countries. Pretty darn obvious no?

Iran is challenging this occupation and its not easy!

 

[Watandar]

...and the worst thing? Millions upon millions of Muslims are ready to sacrifice their lives for these Saudis.

Saudis/Emiratis are literally in bed with some of the most disgusting people ever known to mankind and yet we see folks on this very forum defending their actions.

Well....all those Muslims have been indoctrinated since childhood that fighting for Saudi Arabia is the same as fighting to defend Mecca and Medina, as well as a ticket to Heaven. It is such an evil deception.

 

[Meengla]

People forget that Hamas fought Israel to multiple short ceasefire battles in the years leading up to the October attacks. But it seems that confidence lead way to delusions rather than pragmatic thinking.

There was no options for 'pragmatic thinking' left for the Gazan Palestinians: The Israelis were humiliating the West Bank Palestinians for years leading to the Oct. 7, 2023 breakout by the Gazans and the Gazans were warning Israel to stop that or else. And so when the first opportunity came, the Gazans attacked. There was and never will be a separation from the events in the West Bank which would not be felt in Gaza. Read the news leading the Oct. 7 war.
As I said above, Israel was nearly brought to its knees by late 2024 until, no small thanks to Turkey and stupid Arab leaders, Assad was toppled; it was great timing for Israel because their hard investment into the Trump campaign also materialized. The Middle Eastern history would have been different, and even this catastrophic war would not have happened unless Turkey and some Arab nations played their roles between late 2024 and early 2025 against the Palestinians, along with the Zionists ensuring Kamala Harris could not win the elections.

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

Israel won’t stop at Gaza. It will soon try for Jordan, Egypt and parts of Saudi Arabia. And the Arabs have hoped by normalizing relations with Israel they can’t stop this.

Appeasement never works. Ask Europeans who appeased Hitler.

The good news for Iran is it’s far from Israel’s borders and it will be a long long long time till Israel reaches Karbala.

However for the Arabs, their time is numbered. Iran should just try to keep Hezbollah alive and leave the issue of Palestine and Greater Israel to the Arabs to handle. They never wanted our help and see us as a greater threat then Israel so it’s time to stop trying to save the Levant.

"Israel" will never reach beyond the west side of the Jordan river.

 

[Hazard]

There was no options for 'pragmatic thinking' left for the Gazan Palestinians: The Israelis were humiliating the West Bank Palestinians for years leading to the Oct. 7, 2023 breakout by the Gazans and the Gazans were warning Israel to stop that or else. And so when the first opportunity came, the Gazans attacked. There was and never will be a separation from the events in the West Bank which would not be felt in Gaza. Read the news leading the Oct. 7 war.
As I said above, Israel was nearly brought to its knees by late 2024 until, no small thanks to Turkey and stupid Arab leaders, Assad was toppled; it was great timing for Israel because their hard investment into the Trump campaign also materialized. The Middle Eastern history would have been different, and even this catastrophic war would not have happened unless Turkey and some Arab nations played their roles between late 2024 and early 2025 against the Palestinians, along with the Zionists ensuring Kamala Harris could not win the elections.

You're partially right. Everyone knew that Arabs/Turks weren't going to play any significant role - no one was coming to their aid either diplomatically or militarily. So what exactly were the Palestinians hoping to achieve? I understand the brutal occupation they had been living under, but after Oct 7, it became 100 x times worse and affected every single Palestinian in Gaza. Surely this price isn't worth paying?

 

[Immortals]

they didn't have significant deterrence, Israel 'mowed the lawn' every few years and could always destroy Gaza to defeat Hamas if they felt the threat became too strong. Hamas just beat them to it and got some punches in before Israel did it.

They didn’t have a blank check to level Gaza. Sure they would do some assassinations here or there or fight 5-10 day “war”, but it always ended with a ceasefire.

October attacks and their heinous nature on civilians gave Israel their version of 9/11 to go full no strings attached Grozny on Gaza. No body including EU or America could stop them for fear of looking anti semetic.

Hamas gave Israel everything it could want to deal with the problem once and for all.

In a few days Hamas killed more than 1,000 Israelis (around 400 soldiers/police force). with 1,500 ballistic missiles and hundreds of drones Iran only managed to kill around 30 Israelis and 1 IDF soldier (off duty)

Hamas never had ballistic missiles. There’s a difference between paltry rockets and BMs. And killing civilians is exactly what got Hamas zero sympathy on the international stage. That was the dumbest thing they ever did was killing innocent people. The optics never look good especially against a group that controls the MSM.

And your flaw is you confuse tactical success with strategic success. For Hamas maybe Oct attacks was the most successful tactical win they ever had (and will have) against Israel but that tactical win lead to a strategic defeat.

People like you forget after the May 2021 war, Israel looked weak. It couldn’t stop Hamas from firing 10,000+ rockets into Israel and it ended in a back to status quo stalemate. Many commentators were shocked that Hamas could fire so many rockets and stand fighting. The thought that Israel could challenge Hezbollah on the ground was thought to be absurd as long as Hamas was around.

The issue is at the end of the day, war is about strategic victories. Body counts and casualties doesn’t win wars or change strategic reality. Russia has killed 2x or 3x more Ukrainians than vice versa and yet many would say Russia is facing a strategic defeat.

in the best case scenario Hamas would have traded its power / weapons for more concessions from Israel without having Gaza turned to rubble, but we can't predict what else might have happened

In the best case scenario, Hamas would have waited for AoR to finish the Syria project and the Jordan project and not run head first into suicide mission. If Israel was going to attack Gaza and demolish it as you claim, then waiting and having the self defense excuse would have been a lot in terms of gaining Arab world support. Certainly it was better than proactively going around to murder hundreds of innocent civilians and looking like crazed ISIS Wahhabis on the international stage.

As much as you like to think Bibi could have leveled Gaza without needing the October attacks, it’s simply not true. There is a reason why Gaza has survived for decades. Israel actually withdrew from Gaza originally. So no, Israel didn’t have enough policies capital on world stage to level Gaza to the ground. But it did have it after the October attacks. They simply burned it up committing so much genocide.

So Hamas gave Israel everything it could have ever wanted to finish off any armed Gaza movement. Now Gaza will become like the West Bank.

 

[Immortals]

"Israel" will never reach beyond the west side of the Jordan river.

Who’s gonna stop them? Turkey? Saudi Arabia? Jordan? They all field US weapons with kill switches in them.

The second they try to fight Israel their airplanes, air defense, and other elements will stop working. And Israel will begin decapitating these Arab leaders very quickly.

It will be over before it began.