AJK govt bans Joint Awami Action Committee, notification issued

[M. Sarmad]

The SAME germans who are supplying the israelis were unlimited supply of weaponary to continue the Gaza genocide that has already massacred over 100,000 Palestinians?...................................

What, my friend, is your argument here? Since Germany has supported Israel, and Israel has committed war crimes in Gaza, do Pakistan's army generals therefore have a free hand to kill civilians just to remain in power???

The Israelis are better than us in at least one respect..... they aren't killing their own people...

 

[Mobius]

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[LC150]

I am inclined to agree with you..... Most of what you say is true. Pakistan, like any other country, has its fair share of problems....... Our governance structure is nothing to be proud of, and we rank poorly on many global indices....

That said, many people with little understanding of the region and its geopolitics have an even darker perception of Pakistan...... They see it as little more than a lawless Afghanistan with nuclear weapons...... That image is far worse than the country's actual reality...

Where did that perception come from? mainly from the fact that international media coverage has mostly portrayed Pakistan through an overwhelmingly negative lens, focusing disproportionately on terrorism, instability, and extremism while giving far less attention to the country's complexities and positive side....... That's the bias and slant I am referring to.

As for our classless jurnails, I have no hesitation in endlessly criticizing them for their repeated interference in politics and use of brute force against civilians to remain power ...... But I also believe the Pakistan Army has played a central role in defending the country against external security threats from both the eastern and western borders..... Credit should be given where it is due, just as criticism should be directed where it is deserved....

there no doubt your enemies will do every thing destabilize you.. duh because they are your enemies ?.. I dont think they are a big issue

the issue here is this so called regime is doing more damage to Pakistan as nation then the enemy... ie destroying the very institutions that make a strong country.

 

[LC150]

Personally, on the information I have seen, I have to accept that PML-N have won a reasonably representative and fair election here (

yes..... the rapist "won"...

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

What, my friend, is your argument here? Since Germany has supported Israel, and Israel has committed war crimes in Gaza, do Pakistan's army generals therefore have a free hand to kill civilians just to remain in power???

The Israelis are better than us in at least one respect..... they aren't killing their own people...

What, my friend, is your argument here? Since Germany has supported Israel, and Israel has committed war crimes in Gaza, do Pakistan's army generals therefore have a free hand to kill civilians just to remain in power???

The Israelis are better than us in at least one respect..... they aren't killing their own people...

My argument here is that one needs to be HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS of nations and media organizations that are PROVEN liars and have supported and justified the genocide of over 100,000 Palestinians in Gaza by the Israelis; the genocide of 1.2 million Iraqis by the americans/nato, who now ALL OF A SUDDEN concerned about the rights of Kashmiris and media freedom in Pakistan. Seems VERY VERY SUSPICIOUS and CONTRIVED. These SAME nations and media outlets are HIGHLY Islamaphobic and anti-Muslim. Are WE supposed to believe them? Are they credible, unbiased and truthful?

IF the Pakistani army has committed atrocities against fellow Pakistanis then I am TOTALLY against it. IF they have, could you PLEASE post the links to CREDIBLE, GENUINE, IRREFUTABLE and INDEPENDENT evidence that proves and confirms those claims.

 

[Master Chief]

yes..... the rapist "won"...

You mean the PMLN's Rukhsar Ahmed in UK who has been arrested and bailed for rape charges?

Well, one hopes UK leverages appropriate justice against this man if he is found guilty and does not pathetically cry for him to be deported to Pakistan because the UK system is too weak to allow for proper justice to be served.

I don't really know where that leaves the status of the seat he has supposedly won in AJK.

I won't discuss further as conversations about the UK justice system will derail this particular thread.

 

[M. Sarmad]

IF the Pakistani army has committed atrocities against fellow Pakistanis then I am TOTALLY against it. IF they have, could you PLEASE post the links to CREDIBLE, GENUINE, IRREFUTABLE and INDEPENDENT evidence that proves and confirms those claims.

That's a fair demand at face value, but not an entirely honest one once you consider the circumstances.....

"Credible" is subjective...... Sources such as the UN, Amnesty International, the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, BBC, DW, and Al Jazeera have already been cited, but you have dismissed them all as not credible.....

As for "independent" evidence, how exactly is it supposed to be gathered when international observers and foreign media are effectively barred from accessing the area? ......... Do you realize that the standard you are trying to set would make it virtually impossible to prove Indian atrocities in Occupied Kashmir or even establish the Gaza genocide you are repeatedly referring to.....

So let me ask you a simple question to better understand your position..... Do you accept that the Pakistan Army killed Bengalis in East Pakistan in 1971, or do you reject that as well because the evidence doesn't meet your standard?...

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

That's a fair demand at face value, but not an entirely honest one once you consider the circumstances.....

"Credible" is subjective...... Sources such as the UN, Amnesty International, the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, BBC, DW, and Al Jazeera have already been cited, but you have dismissed them all as not credible.....

As for "independent" evidence, how exactly is it supposed to be gathered when international observers and foreign media are effectively barred from accessing the area? ......... Do you realize that the standard you are trying to set would make it virtually impossible to prove Indian atrocities in Occupied Kashmir or even establish the Gaza genocide you are repeatedly referring to.....

So let me ask you a simple question to better understand your position..... Do you accept that the Pakistan Army killed Bengalis in East Pakistan in 1971, or do you reject that as well because the evidence doesn't meet your standard?...

In the case of bangladesh, I believe that the Pakistani army may have killed some bangladeshis, indian soldiers/infiltrators disguised as Pakistani soldiers killed bengladeshis and bangladeshis killed Pakistanis living in bangladesh at the time. I do NOT believe that 40,000 Pakistani troops in bangladesh killed 3 million bangladeshi as was accepted as truth for over 50 years but was disproved as a hoax a couple of years back.

Can you please post the link to the evidence from the Pakistan Human Rights Commission that proves that the Pakistan military killed people in AJK?

 

[M. Sarmad]

In the case of bangladesh, I believe that the Pakistani army may have killed some bangladeshis, indian soldiers/infiltrators disguised as Pakistani soldiers killed bengladeshis and bangladeshis killed Pakistanis living in bangladesh at the time. I do NOT believe that 40,000 Pakistani troops in bangladesh killed 3 million bangladeshi as was accepted as truth for over 50 years but was disproved as a hoax a couple of years back.

Can you please post the link to the evidence from the Pakistan Human Rights Commission that proves that the Pakistan military killed people in AJK?

So,my friend, you effectively dismiss the killings in Bangladesh by saying they "may" have happened. Thanks for confirming your position...... And for someone who dismisses what happened in Bangladesh, no one will ever be able to convince them of atrocities committed by the Pakistan Army anywhere, ever....

As for HRCP, it is not a criminal court whose job is to gather forensic evidence or secure convictions.... You can check its official statements (July28/29)on the current AJK situation, and download its earlier fact-finding reports from AJK from its website.... They document deaths during the protests, allegations of excessive force by security forces, and call for accountability and independent investigations.... action that, quite understandably, has never been taken...

 

[Goenitz]

My argument here is that one needs to be HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS of nations and media organizations that are PROVEN liars and have supported and justified the genocide of over 100,000 Palestinians in Gaza by the Israelis; the genocide of 1.2 million Iraqis by the americans/nato, who now ALL OF A SUDDEN concerned about the rights of Kashmiris and media freedom in Pakistan

Nearly all Western countries are involved in these vices. Should we ban trade and all relations if they are so evil?

 

[Goenitz]

I do NOT believe that 40,000 Pakistani troops in bangladesh killed 3 million bangladeshi as was accepted as truth for over 50 years but was disproved as a hoax a couple of years back.

Logical argument for scalability.
However, listen to this incident. The number of Eastern Bengal Rifle personnel was higher than that of Western Pakistanis. When it returned from the border exercise, the artillery was already set up.
After Fajar, they got obliterated.

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[PAKISTANFOREVER]

So,my friend, you effectively dismiss the killings in Bangladesh by saying they "may" have happened. Thanks for confirming your position...... And for someone who dismisses what happened in Bangladesh, no one will ever be able to convince them of atrocities committed by the Pakistan Army anywhere, ever....

As for HRCP, it is not a criminal court whose job is to gather forensic evidence or secure convictions.... You can check its official statements (July28/29)on the current AJK situation, and download its earlier fact-finding reports from AJK from its website.... They document deaths during the protests, allegations of excessive force by security forces, and call for accountability and independent investigations.... action that, quite understandably, has never been taken...

Do you believe that 3 million bangladeshis were killed by 40,000 Pakistani soldiers in 9 months?

 

[Master Chief]

Nearly all Western countries are involved in these vices. Should we ban trade and all relations if they are so evil?

"Trade" and "all relations" are not related to a discussion about which sources are or are not deemed credible/reliable enough upon which to formulate reasoned opinion.

This has become a circular argument.

Some will accept certain sources while others will not. Unfortunately or fortunately, I will not accept BBC or AJ narratives at face value, with the exception of certain very specific reporters whom I regard to be established enough to push back against malevolent editorial oversight.

Respectfully to you and all other esteemed members, it is perhaps not worth flogging this particular dead horse any longer.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Nearly all Western countries are involved in these vices. Should we ban trade and all relations if they are so evil?

That is a different argument. Should you BELIEVE them when they are PROVEN liars and hypocrites? Just because you trade with someone does that make them truthful and believable? You're not making any sense here.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Logical argument for scalability.
However, listen to this incident. The number of Eastern Bengal Rifle personnel was higher than that of Western Pakistanis. When it returned from the border exercise, the artillery was already set up.
After Fajar, they got obliterated.

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That in NO WAY proves that 40,000 Pakistani troops killed 3 million bangladeshis which is not even possible yet was accepted as fact by many for over 50 years.