Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

Flotilla said:
Unfortunately It is true.
But that makes them braver. Like special attack group of japanese fighter pilots known as kamikaze.
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It was a stupid attack that was doomed to fail from the start. This isn’t 1979. AWACs can see you flying at any altitude, so sea skimming doesn’t work when the enemy has advanced aircraft in the air.

Also this is an SU-22 which has a large RCS compared to modern fighter jets. It would have made more sense to use F-5’s that have RCS closer to 1m2. Wasn’t the successful Kuwait attack done with F-5’s? Why did iran use SU-22 which has 3-5x larger radar cross section?

Also years ago Iran equipped CMs to its SU-22. Why didn’t those pilots just fire a salvo of Iranian cruise missiles from Iranian territorial waters? It would have accomplished the same attempt while being a lot safer.
 
RzA said:
@Eşbah
@Ravenman

What are your thoughts on collaborating against both Syrian and Iraki Kurds.
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-> https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...n-iran-responds.14927/page-10180#post-1370835

I think that a genuinely patriotic Iranian leadership would have approached the conflict in a different manner; however, the leadership of IRI (including IRGC) lacks a cohesive long-term strategy. They tend to address issues like separatism on a day-to-day basis, which can be a smart tactic occasionally, but more frequently, a nation risks losing its direction without a well-defined long-term plan. I believe that is the case right now. However, I still don't think that everything is lost but the wrong strategy/approach is skyrocketing the cost for Iran without any benefits in return.

They believed they could leverage the 'Kurdish card' against Turkey in a hypothetical future conflict, keeping this option available in their strategy, despite the fact that the same virus could also be fatal to them if used as a weapon. This approach was misguided, resembling ideas that only wannabe intellectual philosophy students sitting in their protected ivory towers would come up with no practical usage.

To gain an advantage over Turkey, one should select a weapon that is certain to inflict damage without the risk of a potentially lethal backlash.

However, they had a once-in-a-lifetime chance to solidify their influence in Ankara. If only Iranian patriots would understand what IRI's misguided Turkey policy has cost them in terms of influence. If the peace process in Turkey is successful, which is not a sure thing, Iran will suddenly be confronted with a Turkish neighbour that has two potent tools at their disposal against Iran. They pushed PKK out of Turkey, they economically tied up Northern Iraq, militarily and diplomatically destroyed SDF in Syria and if the peace process concludes successfully, they will have all the resources in the world to deter Iran. All because of some weird, pseudo-mastermind, fake strategy of IRI.
 
tsunset said:
30K $ for every Hillbilly Cowboy dead or alive brought to authorities + Double bonus for women + Weapon that killed them will be bought 2x its price with a new weapon as replacement

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I so much wish the Iranian generals and politicians would just shut up with these BS statements and announcements. Let Trump be the only imbecile!
 
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Ali_Baba said:
Israel has actively cultivated ties with the Kurds, a group they see as a potentially destabilising force they can leverage for their own means.
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Daily Telegraph has been panicking a fair bit due to recent developments. Not surprised they are now quietly squeezing the Mecca Agreement signatories. A narrative needs to be built against Turkiye, Pakistan and even KSA. They will leave KSA til last because of its generalised pro-western posture and its heavy investments in Europe and USA.

But the above statement from your cited article is the key truism that even they cannot avoid stating.
 
Iran has launched missiles at shipping once again

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I love this guy.

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Immortals said:
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What did they expect, it's not 2001. Everyone who joins the US military knows what they are enlisting for and are willingly joining a terrorist organization under no duress. Should we care that they are unhappy about their conditions? Are they mutinying or do they keep complying with and carrying out their terroristic orders?
 
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Immortals said:
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The end is near. What was for decades a 'conspieracy theory' or a 'nazi racist white supremacist' theory, is now fully in the open in the US. This can't be sustainable.
 
Ali_Baba said:

Erdogan blocked Kurdish forces from entering Iran war ​



Connor Stringer
8–10 minutes

Turkish president’s fear of arming separatists pulls plug on Netanyahu’s covert regime change gamble

Benjamin Netanyahu took his seat in the White House Situation Room.

Sitting opposite Donald Trump on Feb 11, the Israeli prime minister laid out the conditions under which Iran’s brittle regime could be toppled as he tried to convince the president to go to war.

“He told Trump that if we are able to do certain things, we have a chance of creating conditions where the Iranian people could take their fate into their own hands,” a senior Israeli official who was in the room told The Telegraph.

Part of his pitch rested on an ambitious gamble of sending thousands of Kurdish fighters into Tehran’s western frontier under American air cover.

Under a mission developed by Mossad and discussed with the CIA, they would surge across the border of Iraqi Kurdistan and fuel an uprising that would bring down the Ayatollahs once and for all.

There was, however, one man he had failed to account for: Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

The Turkish leader, unhappy with the prospect of armed Kurdish forces in the region, intervened and eventually forced Israel and the United States to pull the plug on the covert operation, The Telegraph understands.

“Several of these conditions did not materialise because of reasons that I won’t get into,” the official added. “It’s not for lack of insight, but for either operational failure or decisions that were made,” he added, hinting at the botched plan.

Mr Erdogan, one of the president’s favoured world leaders, is understood to have told the US president that he would not tolerate Kurdish independence anywhere in the region, according to Israeli and Gulf sources.

His objection stemmed from a decades-old fear of Kurdish separatism.

For more than 40 years, Turkey has fought the Kurdistan Worker’s Party, known as the PKK, a Kurdish militant and political organisation, at a cost of tens of thousands of lives.

The Kurds are the world’s largest stateless ethnic group, primarily split across Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey, where many have experienced severe discrimination and abuse.

Israel has actively cultivated ties with the Kurds, a group they see as a potentially destabilising force they can leverage for their own means. The Kurds in Iran suffered under the Shah, and then later the Islamic Republic.

Upon learning of the plan, the Turkish leader feared that arming the Kurdish militias would see swathes of his political enemies armed and dangerous on Turkey’s eastern border, a position he could not risk.

His intervention helped doom one of the most ambitious attempts at regime change in a war that has collapsed into a quagmire and fallen short of its objectives.

Mr Trump has said that regime change was achieved twice already, and the new government is far more “reasonable” than its predecessors.

Yet the US president continues to insist that regime change was not one of his objectives, which have shifted between reopening the Strait of Hormuz, ending support for Iranian proxies and eradicating its nuclear and missile programmes.

Following the Situation Room meeting, US officials assessed that the elements of Mr Netanyahu’s pitch, which included the possibility of the Kurds mounting a ground invasion of Iran, were detached from reality, according to the New York Times.

When Mr Trump was briefed by John Ratcliffe, the director of the CIA, he used one word to describe the Israeli prime minister’s regime change scenarios: “farcical.”

Still, it did not stop Mr Trump from pursuing the idea.

He spoke with Kurdish leaders on March 1 and continued to lobby local officials who may be able to leverage Tehran’s weakness to make gains.

In an apparent preparation for an assault, Israel bombed positions in western Iran, including regime officials, army bases, missile systems, police stations and Basij sites, leading to speculation that it was paving a path for a Kurdish advance.

The attack from Iraqi Kurdistan was reported to include fighters from all six factions of Iranian Kurds, who would in turn provide weapons to Kurds inside of Iran.

The militant coalition was poised to invade on March 18. All it needed was the go-ahead from Mr Trump.

“If we are not on this battlefield, the end of the regime will either not occur or be delayed by a lot,” Babasheikh Hosseini, the general secretary of the Khabat Organisation, told The Telegraph in the opening days of the war.

“If our [forces] were on the ground, and we told the people of Rojhelat to rise, then the fall of the regime would have been much closer by now.”

Amid the preparations, the Kurds themselves began to express wariness about their prospects against the Iranian regime and began demanding “political guarantees” aside from just military support.

“The intelligence didn’t promise that [regime change] would happen. It said you could advance the probability or the possibility that would happen,” the senior Israeli official told The Telegraph.

Soon after the plan began to unravel, details of the advance found their way into the American media.

Fox News reported in March that an offensive had begun which forced Karoline Leavitt, the outgoing White House press secretary, to clarify that the US was not arming the Kurds for that purpose.

At the same time, Mr Erdogan is understood to have been lobbying Washington to axe the plan. Gulf states also reportedly warned that ethnic partition of Iran could destabilise the Middle East as a whole.

Recommended

The failure did not go down well in Jerusalem. Roman Gofman, the director of Mossad, decided to remove two of the agency’s most senior officials, who had helped draft the regime change plan.

In their latest Oval Office meeting on July 28, the topic of regime change came up again, insiders told The Telegraph.

Mr Netanyahu had conveyed that regime change was still possible under certain conditions, but he seemed to fail to convince Mr Trump, who ultimately opted for a prolonged economic campaign, rather than strikes, to bring an end to the war.

Donald Trump has been unsuccessful in almost every move he has made to bring the war with Iran to a close.

Regime change was supposed to be an off-ramp. That, too, has failed.
Click to expand...
I think some people kind of jump the gun on the so called Mecca defense agreement turkey doesn’t want any Iran falling they have a lot to lose if Iran were to fall or being drawn into a war with Iran for Saudi Arabia the Kurds would attempt to rush in like they did in Syria from Iraq or travel from Syria and elsewhere attempt to carve out a large portion of Iran turkey would have to deal with that problem because they can’t allow a Kurdish state anywhere not in turkey,Iraq,Syria or Iran
 
Ali_Baba said:

Erdogan blocked Kurdish forces from entering Iran war ​



Connor Stringer
8–10 minutes

Turkish president’s fear of arming separatists pulls plug on Netanyahu’s covert regime change gamble

Benjamin Netanyahu took his seat in the White House Situation Room.

Sitting opposite Donald Trump on Feb 11, the Israeli prime minister laid out the conditions under which Iran’s brittle regime could be toppled as he tried to convince the president to go to war.

“He told Trump that if we are able to do certain things, we have a chance of creating conditions where the Iranian people could take their fate into their own hands,” a senior Israeli official who was in the room told The Telegraph.

Part of his pitch rested on an ambitious gamble of sending thousands of Kurdish fighters into Tehran’s western frontier under American air cover.

Under a mission developed by Mossad and discussed with the CIA, they would surge across the border of Iraqi Kurdistan and fuel an uprising that would bring down the Ayatollahs once and for all.

There was, however, one man he had failed to account for: Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

The Turkish leader, unhappy with the prospect of armed Kurdish forces in the region, intervened and eventually forced Israel and the United States to pull the plug on the covert operation, The Telegraph understands.

“Several of these conditions did not materialise because of reasons that I won’t get into,” the official added. “It’s not for lack of insight, but for either operational failure or decisions that were made,” he added, hinting at the botched plan.

Mr Erdogan, one of the president’s favoured world leaders, is understood to have told the US president that he would not tolerate Kurdish independence anywhere in the region, according to Israeli and Gulf sources.

His objection stemmed from a decades-old fear of Kurdish separatism.

For more than 40 years, Turkey has fought the Kurdistan Worker’s Party, known as the PKK, a Kurdish militant and political organisation, at a cost of tens of thousands of lives.

The Kurds are the world’s largest stateless ethnic group, primarily split across Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey, where many have experienced severe discrimination and abuse.

Israel has actively cultivated ties with the Kurds, a group they see as a potentially destabilising force they can leverage for their own means. The Kurds in Iran suffered under the Shah, and then later the Islamic Republic.

Upon learning of the plan, the Turkish leader feared that arming the Kurdish militias would see swathes of his political enemies armed and dangerous on Turkey’s eastern border, a position he could not risk.

His intervention helped doom one of the most ambitious attempts at regime change in a war that has collapsed into a quagmire and fallen short of its objectives.

Mr Trump has said that regime change was achieved twice already, and the new government is far more “reasonable” than its predecessors.

Yet the US president continues to insist that regime change was not one of his objectives, which have shifted between reopening the Strait of Hormuz, ending support for Iranian proxies and eradicating its nuclear and missile programmes.

Following the Situation Room meeting, US officials assessed that the elements of Mr Netanyahu’s pitch, which included the possibility of the Kurds mounting a ground invasion of Iran, were detached from reality, according to the New York Times.

When Mr Trump was briefed by John Ratcliffe, the director of the CIA, he used one word to describe the Israeli prime minister’s regime change scenarios: “farcical.”

Still, it did not stop Mr Trump from pursuing the idea.

He spoke with Kurdish leaders on March 1 and continued to lobby local officials who may be able to leverage Tehran’s weakness to make gains.

In an apparent preparation for an assault, Israel bombed positions in western Iran, including regime officials, army bases, missile systems, police stations and Basij sites, leading to speculation that it was paving a path for a Kurdish advance.

The attack from Iraqi Kurdistan was reported to include fighters from all six factions of Iranian Kurds, who would in turn provide weapons to Kurds inside of Iran.

The militant coalition was poised to invade on March 18. All it needed was the go-ahead from Mr Trump.

“If we are not on this battlefield, the end of the regime will either not occur or be delayed by a lot,” Babasheikh Hosseini, the general secretary of the Khabat Organisation, told The Telegraph in the opening days of the war.

“If our [forces] were on the ground, and we told the people of Rojhelat to rise, then the fall of the regime would have been much closer by now.”

Amid the preparations, the Kurds themselves began to express wariness about their prospects against the Iranian regime and began demanding “political guarantees” aside from just military support.

“The intelligence didn’t promise that [regime change] would happen. It said you could advance the probability or the possibility that would happen,” the senior Israeli official told The Telegraph.

Soon after the plan began to unravel, details of the advance found their way into the American media.

Fox News reported in March that an offensive had begun which forced Karoline Leavitt, the outgoing White House press secretary, to clarify that the US was not arming the Kurds for that purpose.

At the same time, Mr Erdogan is understood to have been lobbying Washington to axe the plan. Gulf states also reportedly warned that ethnic partition of Iran could destabilise the Middle East as a whole.

Recommended

The failure did not go down well in Jerusalem. Roman Gofman, the director of Mossad, decided to remove two of the agency’s most senior officials, who had helped draft the regime change plan.

In their latest Oval Office meeting on July 28, the topic of regime change came up again, insiders told The Telegraph.

Mr Netanyahu had conveyed that regime change was still possible under certain conditions, but he seemed to fail to convince Mr Trump, who ultimately opted for a prolonged economic campaign, rather than strikes, to bring an end to the war.

Donald Trump has been unsuccessful in almost every move he has made to bring the war with Iran to a close.

Regime change was supposed to be an off-ramp. That, too, has failed.
Click to expand...
So many media outlets have reported this was a regime change war yet still some people dont accept that as a war aim. IMO that was primary goal which failed.
 
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