Turkish UAV/UCAV Projects

[MMM-E]

What i don't understand is, why TAI is insisting of ANKA-3 carrying 2xSuper Şimşek on it's pylons? It defeats to whole stealth!?

No need stealth flight capability if ANKA-3 armed with SUPER SIMSEK

SUPER SIMSEK has a range of 900 km to hit all Air Defense Systems from safe distance

Greece and Israel have PATRIOT , BARAK-MX and DAVID's SLING Air Defense Systems with range of 150-300 km

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We won't wage war with Egypt, but I'm just writing this as an example

ANKA-3s can fly 200-300 km over the Eastern Mediterranean and to fire SUPER SIMSEK from safe distance to hit Russian-made Rezonans-NE early warning Radar in Egypt ..... ( 800 km away from Turkiye )

and S300s can not stop the ANKA-3s

 

[MMM-E]

Aksungur can also carry Super Şimşek, which means Akıncı can do too.

It's a matter of choice
We can either use the faster, jet-powered ANKA-3 or platforms like the AKSUNGUR and AKINCI

ANKA-3 is roughly 3.5 times faster than AKSUNGUR

ANKA-3 = speed of 830 – 860 km/h (Mach 0.7)
AKSUNGUR = speed of 250 km/h

 

[Sinan]

It's a matter of choice
We can either use the faster, jet-powered ANKA-3 or platforms like the AKSUNGUR and AKINCI

ANKA-3 is roughly 3.5 times faster than AKSUNGUR

ANKA-3 = speed of 830 – 860 km/h (Mach 0.7)
AKSUNGUR = speed of 250 km/h

I dunno would speed really matter, i always envisaged Anka-3 as a stealthy bomber, going in without being detected dropping bombs from internal bays, and get out at full speed.

Like that should be the main mission profile, no other uavs can do that (maybe Kızılelma), however, i think Kızılelmas will be used for Air-to-Air missions.

So to that, TAI needs to improve it's stealth features making sensors and antennas conformal, also they need to improve internal weapons bay. Like it needs to open the bay, drop the bomb and close the bay in 1-2 seconds so it doesn't gets detected on radar.

It's been 3 years from the first flight, and we see that these issues still not resolved, but it's dangling 2 UAVs, from it's pylons !!??

Also, i wanna add that Bayraktar-K2 has a range of 2000km, 200 kg warhead (Süper Şimşek has 50 kg warhead) and much cheaper.

I feel like, TAI is needlessly promoting their platfrom (Süper Şimşek) while their mission profile waits to be developed.

 

[RealNapster]

Also, i wanna add that Bayraktar-K2 has a range of 2000km, 200 kg warhead (Süper Şimşek has 50 kg warhead) and much cheaper

There is a need for a compact, less complex, high speed (exceeding 350 km/hr), and high range (1800 - 2200 km) drone with 100 kg warhead.

K2 is too complex and expensive for a suicide drone. Does a one way suicide drone really need landing gears and takeoff/landing capabilities and 200 kg warhead . ?? I dont think so.

 

[Sinan]

There is a need for a compact, less complex, high speed (exceeding 350 km/hr), and high range (1800 - 2200 km) drone with 100 kg warhead.

K2 is too complex and expensive for a suicide drone. Does a one way suicide drone really need landing gears and takeoff/landing capabilities and 200 kg warhead . ?? I dont think so.

Where do you come up with K2 being complex? It's very cheap on the contrary. It doesn't have like rectracting landing gears, it's a very simple system. Landing capabilities is useful for excersises, so you don't waste your drone and use it again.

Also, where do you come up with "There is a need for a compact, less complex, high speed (exceeding 350 km/hr), and high range (1800 - 2200 km) drone with 100 kg warhead."

Who requested this?

 

[MMM-E]

It's been 3 years from the first flight, and we see that these issues still not resolved, but it's dangling 2 UAVs, from it's pylons !!??

Have you ever seen a video showcasing the capabilities of American, Russian, Chinese, French, and British flying-wing stealth UCAVs that you mentioned ?

The ANKA-3 project is progressing very quickly and well, and it will enter the inventory next year.


also , That SUPER LIGHTNING jet powered kamikaze Drone you disliked, there's currently no exact equivalent in NATO

 

[MMM-E]

Also, i wanna add that Bayraktar-K2 has a range of 2000km, 200 kg warhead (Süper Şimşek has 50 kg warhead) and much cheaper.

-- SUPER SIMSEK is more faster than the K2
-- SUPER SIMSEK is more stealthier than the K2

-- SUPER SIMSEK has greater task capabilities than the K2
( kamikaze role , to mimic Fighter Jets and Electronic jamming )

and 35 kg warhead is enough to destroy a Radar or Air Defense System

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Using a coordinated swarm of 50 SUPER SIMSEK units against a sophisticated Air Defense System can be a highly effective

Swarm Element	Qty	Primary Equipment	Launch Vector	System Impact
1. Mimic/Decoy	30	RCS Augmenters, Heat Flares	High Altitude (Air-Launched via ANKA-3)	Depletes interceptor missile inventory
2. Jammer	10	DRFM Jammers, Noise Emitters	Mid Altitude (Flanking Angles)	Blinds fire-control radar, breaks missile tracking
3. Kamikaze	10	35kg HE Warhead, Anti-Rad Seeker	Low Altitude (Terrain Masking / Sea Skimming)	Physical destruction of radar and command units

Can you show me another system that NATO could do this ? currently

 

[RealNapster]

Where do you come up with K2 being complex? It's very cheap on the contrary. It doesn't have like rectracting landing gears, it's a very simple system. Landing capabilities is useful for excersises, so you don't waste your drone and use it again.

Also, where do you come up with "There is a need for a compact, less complex, high speed (exceeding 350 km/hr), and high range (1800 - 2200 km) drone with 100 kg warhead."

Who requested this?

Well, first of all, its an 800 kg drone with a 200 kg warhead. This adds to cost. Its cost is atleast 2.5 times Shaheed drones for that reason. No target requires a 200 kg warhead and if one does, that is a target for missiles and fighter jets maybe. I would certainly not send a 150-200 km/hr speed drone to that target. Common sense.

Almost all of major militaries have found ways to tackle the slow moving shaheed type drones. Thanks to the interceptor drones. They cost less than even 5000. So sending a slow moving K2 drones while knowing that it would be easily brought down by a 3k-5k interceptor drone is madness.

You have to consider this. Some weapons makes sense and are practice. Some doesn't. People can disagree on functionality and suitability of a wepon system. These systems are not from GOD, they are not invincibile and free of issues. K2 is one such weapon IN MY OPINION. The war changed. Now with LMs you need speed.

 

[Sinan]

Have you ever seen a video showcasing the capabilities of American, Russian, Chinese, French, and British flying-wing stealth UCAVs that you mentioned ?

The ANKA-3 project is progressing very quickly and well, and it will enter the inventory next year.


also , That SUPER LIGHTNING jet powered kamikaze Drone you disliked, there's currently no exact equivalent in NATO

Why are you comparing us with other nations, why should we care what they do. I compare TAI with Baykar.

I say to you, if it's gonna enter the inventory, they need to solve these issues, otherwise TuAF is not gonna accept it. We saw the same thing for Hürkuş. TuAF rejectted it for 10 years. It only got accepted recently.

Look, you are again stuffing the words in my mouth and i hate this.

I never said that i disliked "SUPER LIGHTNING", you do this all the time. I say something, than you say something as if i wrote a different thing.....

 

[MMM-E]

Turkiye has all kinds of kamikaze Drones from tactical to strategic

from 10 km to 2000 km
from jet powered to stealth

Russia is unable to stop Ukraine's kamikaze drones including low speed AN-196 which is similar to Turkish TB-2


Low-speed kamikaze Drones typically fly at very low altitudes. Traditional Russian Air Defense radars, designed to detect high-altitude Fighter Jets , Bombers or Ballistic Missiles

Ukrainian kamikaze Drones routinely strike energy infrastructure and some other targets in Russia over 1,200 to 1,400 km away from the front lines


Turkiye can do it with the 2000+ km K-2 kamikaze Drones ( 200 kg warhead )


We can even use 2000 other long-range kamikaze Drones like 1000 km MIZRAK, MOSQUITO, KUZGUN and SUPER LIGHTNING to initially destroy enemy air defense systems, and then deliver a deep strike to enemy vulnerable areas with the K-2s

 

[Sinan]

-- SUPER SIMSEK is more faster than the K2
-- SUPER SIMSEK is more stealthier than the K2

-- SUPER SIMSEK has greater task capabilities than the K2
( kamikaze role , to mimic Fighter Jets and Electronic jamming )

and 35 kg warhead is enough to destroy a Radar or Air Defense System

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Using a coordinated swarm of 50 SUPER SIMSEK units against a sophisticated Air Defense System can be a highly effective

Swarm Element	Qty	Primary Equipment	Launch Vector	System Impact
1. Mimic/Decoy	30	RCS Augmenters, Heat Flares	High Altitude (Air-Launched via ANKA-3)	Depletes interceptor missile inventory
2. Jammer	10	DRFM Jammers, Noise Emitters	Mid Altitude (Flanking Angles)	Blinds fire-control radar, breaks missile tracking
3. Kamikaze	10	35kg HE Warhead, Anti-Rad Seeker	Low Altitude (Terrain Masking / Sea Skimming)	Physical destruction of radar and command units

Can you show me another system that NATO could do this ? currently

Again, I don't care for what other countries do.

Super şimşek has it's use. I believe in a large Air to Air battle, send them first let them to soak in enemy missiles, make enemy show their locations then struck. It's the best use for it.

For air-defence, it would be a very expensive solution, send in some K-2 in very low altitute. They will get the job done in a very cheap way.

And it's not stealthier, that shape is not stealth shape.

 

[MMM-E]

I say to you, if it's gonna enter the inventory, they need to solve these issues, otherwise TuAF is not gonna accept it. We saw the same thing for Hürkuş. TuAF rejectted it for 10 years. It only got accepted recently.

Of Course TAI will do it but need more time

Even the USA and China couldn't immediately bring a cutting-edge product, which only made its first flight 3 years ago, to a perfect level.

The Turkish Armed Forces have very high requirements and will not accept anything without the highest level of capability, and if TURAF accepts it, it means we have developed an elite-level product in the world.

 

[Sinan]

Turkiye has all kinds of kamikaze Drones from tactical to strategic

from 10 km to 2000 km
from jet powered to stealth

Russia is unable to stop Ukraine's kamikaze drones including low speed AN-196 which is similar to Turkish TB-2
View attachment 211413

Low-speed kamikaze Drones typically fly at very low altitudes. Traditional Russian Air Defense radars, designed to detect high-altitude Fighter Jets , Bombers or Ballistic Missiles

Ukrainian kamikaze Drones routinely strike energy infrastructure and some other targets in Russia over 1,200 to 1,400 km away from the front lines
View attachment 211414

Turkiye can do it with the 2000+ km K-2 kamikaze Drones ( 200 kg warhead )
View attachment 211415

We can even use 2000 other long-range kamikaze Drones like 1000 km MIZRAK, MOSQUITO, KUZGUN and SUPER LIGHTNING to initially destroy enemy air defense systems, and then deliver a deep strike to enemy vulnerable areas with the K-2s

That's basically what i'm saying but SUPER LIGHTINING a jet powered drone with 50 kg warhead, that would be too expensive when you have cheaper solutions. Although military planners would know better than me, i don't think that i'm wrong.

 

[Sinan]

Of Course TAI will do it but need more time

Even the USA and China couldn't immediately bring a cutting-edge product, which only made its first flight 3 years ago, to a perfect level.

The Turkish Armed Forces have very high requirements and will not accept anything without the highest level of capability, and if TURAF accepts it, it means we have developed an elite-level product in the world.

Exactly, Turkish military rejectted Vestel Karayel for instance.

 

[MMM-E]

For air-defence, it would be a very expensive solution, send in some K-2 in very low altitute. They will get the job done in a very cheap way.

Let's send the cheaper and faster-to-produce kamikaze Drones like 1000 km SIVRISINEK and KUZGUN first ,, also 1000+ km MIZRAK

The jet-powered SUPER SIMSEK Drones in front of them will employ electronic jamming to reduce the effectiveness of Air Defense Radars


after the destroying enemy air defense systems, and then deliver a deep strike to enemy vulnerable areas with the K-2s .... and GAME OVER