Tang dynasty battles with the caliphate

[_Arabia_]

20.000 great warrior Turks = 200.000 Arabs

Turks won the battle of Talas , not the Arabs

Turkish war techniques were dominant in Asia
Even 80% of Genghis Khan's Army consisted of Turkic warriors, and the same tradition was observed in the Mongol-Turkic war effort

only one example
Turkic origin BAIBARS KHAN led the vanguard of the Turkic MAMLUK Forces ( Egypt ) at the Battle of Ain Jalut in 1260 which marked the first substantial defeat of the Mongol army and is considered a turning point in history

Not Arabs but Turks defeat the Mongols

BAIBARS KHAN was also Commander of the Turkic MAMLUK forces that inflicted a defeat on the 7th Crusade of King Louis IX of France

Well, practically every single first-hand, second-hand source and historians (modern-day as well) disagrees with you and agrees with me.

I already wrote to you (and everyone else reading this thread - I even linked to an specific article about Mongol destructions) that Arabs were far less impacted (negatively) by Mongols than Turks, Central Asia as a whole, Iran (Persians) and East Asians were.

You should read about how Mamluks (half of them were Circassians and other non-Turkic peoples) ended up in the Arab world in the first place (and who ruled their lands for centuries and made them Muslim - the answer is Arabs) and lastly what the word (Arabic word) means to begin with.

Lastly only very stupid people believe that battles occurring on Arab soil had no locals/Arabs.

The only correct thing that you have written in this thread so far is that Islam gained a foothold in Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo (tiny, tiny countries with today less than 6 million Muslims combined) due to Ottomans and I wrote that myself and agreed with you. Rest was/is inaccurate nonsense.

Lastly I struggle to see what some Karluk nomadic Turks from Central Asia have of kinship with modern-day Turks (Anatolians)?

BTW Arabs were the majority of Ottomans and using your stupid logic, Arabs won the wars against the West in WW1 and not Anatolians.

The forgotten Arabs of Gallipoli

At a small but moving ceremony on 8 January, hundreds of Turks marked the 88th anniversary of the end of a famous first world war - Gallipoli.

www.aljazeera.com

تاريخ


https://www.aljazeera.com/archive/2004/01/200849135129326810.html



https://books.google.nl/books?id=3PCpCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA25&dq=gallipoli+arabs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixs4-p4qfpAhVS_aQKHf5dCbsQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=gallipoli arabs&f=false



Arabs formed 2/3 of the 9th division who repelled the first wave of ANZAC's in the Gallipoli Campaign. This decisive battle basically paved the way for the formation of the Turkish state 8 years later.



“Two thirds of the troops who made up his (colonel Mustafa Kemal) 19th Division that faced the first wave of the Allied invasion were Syrian Arabs, comprising the 72nd and 77th regiments of the Ottoman army”





With an estimated 300,000 Arabs in the Ottoman forces in 1914, a third of the total men under arms, there were far more Arabs serving in the ranks of the Ottoman army than those who followed the banners of the Arab revolt, Goncu points out.

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Arabs have a far bigger claim of "winning" that battle than Anatolians (modern-day Turks) claiming Battle of Tabas (80% of the army was composed of Arabs) due to some linguistic (mainly) connection with nomadic Central Asian Karluks.

Any way this is not the topic of this thread.

 

[Indos]

@_Arabia_ bro, your English is pretty good, I shape my English writing from reading your post as well since 2013...

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yeah, the Manchus especially the ruling class feared Han Chinese more than the white Europeans as evidenced in the historical documents of what were spoken on the subject by the Qing Empress Dowager Cixi that was chiefly responsible for all the humiliating decisions of the late Qing court. The Manchus ruling class could care less if the white Europeans establish a strong hold in China.

Many parts of our glorious history were either deleted or downgraded by the Manchurian rulers, and the image of the Han Chinese Emperors or heroic figures were also demonized.

According to Jeffrey Sachs, China did invent the prototype of the steam turbine since the Song Dynasty, and it was largely utilized during the Ming Dynasty, and James Watt did improve it and made it largely operational to trigger the industrial revolution.

BTW, the Manchus are always eager to prove that the Han Chinese is an inferior race to the westerners and them, and if it wasn't them, we wouldn't possess nearly 10 million km^2 of land, so it should be us to owe them a large debt.

These insidious bastards have been fooling us for too long, and before we were still naively treating them as our brother and sister.

 

[MMM-E]

You should read about how Mamluks (half of them were Circassians and other non-Turkic peoples) ended up in the Arab world in the first place (and who ruled their lands for centuries and made them Muslim - the answer is Arabs) and lastly what the word (Arabic word) means to begin with.

The Arabs finished after the 8th century
And the time of the Turks has begun in the 9th century

The Bahri Era (1250–1382): The Purely Turkic Era
This is the golden age of the MAMLUKs . The Turkic forces that built the state, crushed the Mongols at Ain Jalut, and permanently expelled the Crusaders were exclusively Turkic

Circassians did not found the state. rather, they seized control of the ruling apparatus much later, more than 130 years after the empire had already been established and its greatest victories won

 

[ety]

Many parts of our glorious history was either deleted or downgraded by the Manchurian rulers, and the image of the Han Chinese Emperors or heroic figures were also demonized.

According to Jeffrey Sachs, China did invent the prototype of the steam turbine since the Song Dynasty, and it was largely utilized during the Ming Dynasty, and James Watt did improve it and made it largely operational to trigger the industrial revolution.

BTW, the Manchus are always eager to prove that the Han Chinese is an inferior race to the westerners and them, and if it wasn't them, we wouldn't possess nearly 10 million km^2 of land, so it should be us to owe them a large debt.

These insidious bastards have been fooling us for too long, and before we were still naively treating them as our brother and sister.

Yeah, they had done much to harm and regress Chinese civilization during the 300 years they ruled China. Even in Ming dynasty, China was still ahead of Europe in many areas. Then, the Manchus came, every thing stopped progressing or worse start degenerating. The Manchus of Qing were responsible for putting China in such backward state as it collided with the European powers.

 

[_Arabia_]

@_Arabia_ bro, your English is pretty good, I shape my English writing from reading your post as well since 2013...

Nothing special, really, and I do make grammatical mistakes as well. A lot of it is due to the length of my posts and that I don't always bother to correct my mistakes.

In the old PDF, I made (you I believe as well) quite a few threads about Arab Indonesians and other Arab communities in South East Asia.

Even more, we had a Chinese friend who was an Arabist educated in Taiwan (I think it was Taiwan) or China. His knowledge was astounding and I remember learning a lot from his threads.

BTW there are many Saudi Arabians of Indonesian origin (Javanese and Sumatran mainly). Some 1.5 million of Indonesia or partial Indonesian heritage (Saudi Arabian citizens).

Indonesians in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Former minister of Hajj and Umrah was of Indonesian origin.

Muhammad Saleh Benten - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Surnarme Benten = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banten region in Java.

Very famous Hadith scholar:

Yasin al-Fadani - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Origins in Padang in Sumatra.

Famous cleric online:

Assim al-Hakeem - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1.5 million followers on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/@assimalhakeem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandailing_people of this tribe/people

Many others. I don't know if they have mixed with locals or other minorities but those who came for Hajj, Umrah (past 1400 years), business/trade/economic reasons have been absorbed by locals and it is very difficult to tell them apart today. Easier with more recent migrations (2-3 generations ago). Same story with all the other minorities from Bosnia to Nigeria to China (Hui and Uyghur's).

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yeah, they had done much to harm and regress Chinese civilization during the 300 years they ruled China. Even in Ming dynasty, China was still ahead of Europe in many areas. Then, the Manchus came, every thing stopped progressing or worse start degenerating. The Manchus of Qing were responsible for putting China in such backward state as it collided with the European powers.

And Ming Dynasty's territory was also deliberately downgraded by them.

And they purposely want us to owe them for making China a supergiant.

When you look at the Chinese citizens during the Ming Dynasty era painting and those from the late Qing Dynasty era, our Qing era predecessors were severely deformed and malnourished compared to their Ming era ancestors.

The guy who leaked the DF-31 ICBM information was an ethnic Manchu.

The people who sold the Han Chinese DNA samples to the western institution were also ethnic Manchu.

The leader of the state-owned enterprise that sold China's best equipment to India was also an ethnic Manchu.

Nuff said, we can no longer trust these people anymore.

 

[MMM-E]

The early Arab armies were accustomed to fighting the Romans and Persians in deserts and open plains. They had no experience dealing with Tang Dynasty China's advanced military technology, heavy armor, and devastating crossbow tactics

The only reason the Arabs managed to win the Battle of Talas was because the Turks stepped in and did the heavy lifting for them

----------------------------------------------------------------------

btw , The Tang Chinese army did not just consist of ethnic Chinese
it relied heavily on a large vanguard of Karluk Turks who acted as mercenaries and allies

When the Turks switched sides and fought against China, the Chinese were shocked and scattered.

 

[Anatolia]

Lastly only very stupid people believe that battles occurring on Arab soil had no locals/Arabs.

It's true. Arabs do not do fighting. They depended on Berbers and Turks and other non-Arabs.

Lastly I struggle to see what some Karluk nomadic Turks from Central Asia have of kinship with modern-day Turks (Anatolians)?

Same could be said about the kinship between Gulf Arabs to Somalians and Berbers.

 

[MMM-E]

From the earliest periods of Chinese history, their greatest nightmare has been the Turkic tribes in the north. The Great Wall of China was built to stop these invasions

The Turks defeated Chinese armies numerous times and conquered vast parts of their territory. However, they made a highly conscious and strategic decision not to settle in China or directly govern its massive population to avoid assimilation.


The Warnings of the Orkhon Inscriptions
The clearest written proof of this policy comes from the Orkhon Inscriptions from the 8th century. The great statesman Bilge Tonyukuk and Emperor Bilge Khagan explicitly warned the Turkic people

-- Do not be deceived by China’s soft silk, sweet words and princesses.

-- If you move into Chinese lands and settle there, you will be outnumbered, absorbed, and lose your Turkic identity.

-- The correct strategy is to stay in the steppes (OTUKEN), maintain military readiness, defeat China from the outside, and make them pay tribute.

 

[_Arabia_]

The early Arab armies were accustomed to fighting the Romans and Persians in deserts and open plains. They had no experience dealing with Tang Dynasty China's advanced military technology, heavy armor, and devastating crossbow tactics

The only reason the Arabs managed to win the Battle of Talas was because the Turks stepped in and did the heavy lifting for them

----------------------------------------------------------------------

btw , The Tang Chinese army did not just consist of ethnic Chinese
it relied heavily on a large vanguard of Karluk Turks who acted as mercenaries and allies

When the Turks switched sides and fought against China, the Chinese were shocked and scattered.

Yet it was the Arabs who created the (by far) largest and most influential Muslim Caliphates and dynasties across the Muslim world and the longest lasting. By far. From the very beginning (Rashidun) to the Abbasid Caliphate that officially ended in 1517.

95% of all the Muslim conquests and conversions were done by Arabs.

All of Arab world, Africa, South Europe (only tiny Albania and Bosnia was not by Arabs), Caucasus, Central Asia, South Asia, South East Asia (through maritime trade and settlements) etc.

Half of Arabia is mountainous and Arabs had vast experience in all types of warfare (naval as well since Arabs controlled some of the most important ancient maritime trade routes for millennia) from desert, plains, mountains, naval, urban to everything else.

You have to have that when you are able to create 3 of the 11 largest empires in history and when you at your height controlled a landmass spanning 3 continents and 15.000 km from east to west.

Even Arabs played a key role for the dying Ottoman Empire in battles against the Westerners as I provided evidence of earlier in this thread.

Arabs would not control a landmass the size of Russia spanning 2 continents to this day.

Only pathetic trolls cannot admit the obvious facts and historical facts that the entire world knows about.

It's true. Arabs do not do fighting. They depended on Berbers and Turks and other non-Arabs.

Same could be said about the kinship between Gulf Arabs to Somalians and Berbers.

Sure, expect that one (Berbers) were insignificant and completely Arabized and ruled by Arabs for 1400 + years (with no a single Berber country in existence) and the other (actual Turks - not Anatolians who were ruled by foreigners for most of all of recorded history - among others Arabs) were taken as conquered slaves (hence the word Mamluk which literally means slave in Arabic) by the same Arabs.

Arabs and Berbers are cousins and closely related peoples.

Somalis did not play any role outside of Somalia so not sure what they have to do with anything.

 

[ety]

And Ming Dynasty's territory was also deliberated downgraded by them.

And they purposely want us to owe them for making China a supergiant.

When you look at the Chinese citizens during the Ming Dynasty era painting and those from the late Qing Dynasty era, our Qing era predecessors were severely deformed and malnourished compared to their Ming era ancestors.

The guy who leaked the DF-31 ICBM information was an ethnic Manchu.

The people who sold the Han Chinese DNA samples to the western institution were also ethnic Manchu.

The leader of the state-owned enterprise that sold China's best equipment to India was also an ethnic Manchu.

Nuff said, we can no longer trust these people anymore.

Excatly. The portraits of Qing Dynasty emperors all depict them as stubborn and unruly. It was truly unfortunate that China was ruled by these barbarians for three hundred years, almost leading to the extinction of the nation and its people. Before the Qing Dynasty, Chinese people in portraits were generally depicted as respectable and good-looking. In Qing Dynasty portraits, however, Chinese people are mostly shown as ragged, malnourished and wretched.

Yeah, there is a case established and can be found online about the Manchurian that sold the secrets of DF-31 to US. His grandfather was a Hanjian or traitor in the Manchukuo that was the puppet state of invading Japan in 1930s and 1940s.

 

[MMM-E]

Only pathetic trolls cannot admit the obvious facts and historical facts that the entire world knows about.

The biggest pathetic troll is you with Arab wet dreams .. 500 million useless Arabs

The Arabs finished in the 8th century .. stop dreaming and return the real world

For the last 1000 years, it was the Turkish armies that spread and protected Islam...

The Turks did not betray Islam by licking the asses of the British like Arabs did.

 

[ety]

From the earliest periods of Chinese history, their greatest nightmare has been the Turkic tribes in the north. The Great Wall of China was built to stop these invasions

The Turks defeated Chinese armies numerous times and conquered vast parts of their territory. However, they made a highly conscious and strategic decision not to settle in China or directly govern its massive population to avoid assimilation.


The Warnings of the Orkhon Inscriptions
The clearest written proof of this policy comes from the Orkhon Inscriptions from the 8th century. The great statesman Bilge Tonyukuk and Emperor Bilge Khagan explicitly warned the Turkic people

-- Do not be deceived by China’s soft silk, sweet words and princesses.

-- If you move into Chinese lands and settle there, you will be outnumbered, absorbed, and lose your Turkic identity.

-- The correct strategy is to stay in the steppes (OTUKEN), maintain military readiness, defeat China from the outside, and make them pay tribute.

Lol, great wall of China was constructed to defend against the Xiongnu and Mongols, had nothing to do with Turks. Turks were hammered and chased away from Chinese borders to far away lands in Eurasia.

 

[Anatolia]

Sure, expect that one (Berbers) were insignificant and completely Arabized and ruled by Arabs for 1400 + years (with no a single Berber country in existence) and the other (actual Turks - not Anatolians who were ruled by foreigners for most of all of recorded history - among others Arabs) were taken as conquered slaves (hence the word Mamluk which literally means slave in Arabic) by the same Arabs.

Are we discussing the origin of the word Mamluk or if Arabs actually fought in battles?

Arabs and Berbers are cousins and closely related peoples.

Berbers disagree. Even I was shocked by it. should maybe try speaking to one or two of them.

Somalis did not play any role outside of Somalia so not sure what they have to do with anything.

Because a lot of Arabs tend to claim them as Arab too.