Tang dynasty battles with the caliphate

[MMM-E]

So the Turks emerged from the chaotic period of China between the collapse of the Han Dynasty and the establishment of the Tang Dynasty.

Great Hun Empire ( Xiongnu ) = TURKS

209 B.C., the date of the accession to the throne of the Great Hun Emperor METE KHAN , is the year taken as basis of the foundation of Turkish Land Forces.

In first the regular Turkish Land Army founded by Mete Han in 209 B.C

the largest unit in terms of number, consisting of 10,000 horsemen, was called "Division", divisions were divided into thousands, thousands into hundreds, hundreds into tens, each of them was assigned a commander with the ranks of Division Chief, Major, Captain and Corporal, and from bottom to top they are subordinated to each other in the correct chain of command


in 209 BC , We Turks created the modern Army in history , the core system of hierarchical division used by almost every modern military today

official souce

History

www.kkk.tsk.tr

 

[_Arabia_]

There were several civilizations in Central Asia, but it was just not recognized as paramount civilization as the Han Dynasty which was the Chinese Dynasty that invented paper, and a peer contemporary civilization to the Greco-Roman civilization.

The Tang Dynasty was the Chinese Dynasty who invented the gun power, and it was the contemporary peer civilization to the Umayyad-Abbasid Caliphate.

And Mongolia was the homeland for Xiongnu/Turk/Mongol, and it has never been the cradle of any civilization, but the birthplace of the fiercest steppe nomads.

Do we have the name of such a native Central Asian civilization? By native I mean non-Chinese (Han Chinese), non-Turkic, non-Mongol (all are not native to Central Asia), non-Indo-Iranian (same thing - not natives).

Google tells me that it is Bactria but that is the very southernmost Central Asia and I would hardly classify it as traditional Central Asia. Fringes in other words.

The entire huge landmass covering much of Siberia, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, I don't think that much occurred until the arrival of those nomads (originally) who later became settled.



BMAC is that tiny area - correspondents to modern-day South Turkmenistan/South Uzbekistan which probably had a different climate back then. Rest is steppe/desert (Andronovo).

I see Central Asia (based on what I have read) as a highway for humans to travel across (from West to East originally during the earliest human migrations) and afterwards (much, much later), east to West - very recent migrations in the larger picture (Turkic and Mongol).

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I roughly knew about this timeline.

What are the oldest attested Chinese sources about Central Asia? Do we have anything from the period of say the Shang dynasty (1600 BC to 1046 BC)?

Shang dynasty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But it makes sense if most Indo-Iranians were north of Caucasus during that era (apparently) and there were no Chinese, Mongols or Turkic peoples (settled), it makes sense that nobody attested anything this old and there are no traces of anything to this day.

The first official Chinese Dynasty was the Xia Dynasty, and its archaeological record was scarcer compared to its successor the Shang Dynasty, but later archaeological finding has proved that it did exist.

Xia dynasty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Since the Han Dynasty was the first Chinese Empire, and it also has established the diplomatic relationship with the later Roman Empire.

The previous Chinese Dynasties before the Han Dynasty hasn't reached the status of an empire.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Do we have the name of such a native Central Asian civilization? By native I mean non-Chinese (Han Chinese), non-Turkic, non-Mongol (all are not native to Central Asia), non-Indo-Iranian (same thing - not natives).

Google tells me that it is Bactria but that is the very southernmost Central Asia and I would hardly classify it as traditional Central Asia. Fringes in other words.

The entire huge landmass covering much of Siberia, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, I don't think that much occurred until the arrival of those nomads (originally) who later became settled.

View attachment 211558

BMAC is that tiny area - correspondents to modern-day South Turkmenistan/South Uzbekistan which probably had a different climate back then. Rest is steppe/desert (Andronovo).

I see Central Asia (based on what I have read) as a highway for humans to travel across (from West to East originally during the earliest human migrations) and afterwards (much, much later), east to West - very recent migrations in the larger picture (Turkic and Mongol).

Did the BMAC settlers carry the haplogroup J?

If so, they should be the close relatives of the Arabs.

 

[_Arabia_]

And now full of free and modernized Countries
Kazakhstan , Turkmenistan , Uzbekistan , Kyrgyzistan

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-- Turkmenistan hosts the 4th largest gas reserves in the World
-- Kazakhstan hosts large oil and gas reserves

Also , Kazakhstan is the world's leading producer of uranium, accounting for roughly 40% of global output
View attachment 211556
View attachment 211557

They are doing better after gaining independence from Russia, which is good to see, but they will always be sandwiched between Russia in the West and North, China in the East and Southeast and blocked by mountains in the South towards South Asia.

Almost more people in Afghanistan next door than in all of Central Asia combined. (75 million vs 50 million).

Central Asia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They have a difficult location/neighborhood, geography and too few people to fully challenge and create a fully independent bloc. For now at least.

Personally I find Uzbekistan to be the most interesting Central Asian state. They seem to have the richest history and the most beautiful/old cities such as Bukhara and Samarkand. There is an old relationship between Arabs and Uzbekistan too and many Uzbeks migrated to KSA.

Central Asian Arabs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Central Asian Arabic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In Afghanistan the few Arabic speaking villages - most of them are in the Uzbek majority inhabited areas of Afghanistan.

History of Arabs in Afghanistan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The richest Central Asian nation is Kazakhstan though - also the largest.

Many beautiful natural areas though and good hunting areas.

I believe that Turks can understand Turkmens the most due to Oghuz Turkic connection.

 

[ety]

The first official Chinese Dynasty was the Xia Dynasty, and its archaeological record was scarcer compared to its successor the Shang Dynasty, but later archaeological finding has proved that it did exist.

Xia dynasty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Since the Han Dynasty was the first Chinese Empire, and it also has established the diplomatic relationship with the later Roman Empire.

The previous Chinese Dynasties before the Han Dynasty hasn't reached the status of an empire.

Actually, Qin dynasty just before Han dynasty was the first Chinese empire, but short lived. Many political systems and practices in China today can still trace back to Qin-Han eras.

 

[MMM-E]

They are doing better after gaining independence from Russia, which is good to see, but they will always be sandwiched between Russia in the West and North, China in the East and Southeast and blocked by mountains in the South towards South Asia.

Theye are seeking only more investments from big powers ( China , The EU , USA )

Central Asia is the GCC ( Saudi Arabia , Qatar , The UAE ) of Asia

Thanks to their rich gas and oil reserves, they have a very bright future and attract hundreds of billions of dollars in foreign investment, especially Kazakhstan.

Furthermore, Turkic countries are of key importance for China's OBOR Project.

 

[_Arabia_]

Did the BMAC settlers carry the haplogroup J?

If so, they should be the close relatives of the Arabs.

No idea what they were but all the main haplogroups (if you go far enough back) originate in the Arab world and before that in East Africa (Horn of Africa).

The Aboriginals of Australia for instance are thought to have migrated from Arabia into first South Asia and later rough a land bridge to Australia via South East Asia.

Same with the Dravidians - there are some local Dravidian looking people in South Arabia (very isolated communities) who many experts/geneticists claim were/are the predecessors of those Dravidians that ventured into South Asia many 10.000's of years ago.

The Negritos of East and South East Asia are apparently also one of the earliest human migrations towards East Asia.

Negrito - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And what about those African-looking people on Sentinel island? I think that they are even older migrants than the Aboriginals that reached Australia some 60.000 years ago or so.

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[ChineseTiger1986]

Actually, Qin dynasty just before Han dynasty was the first Chinese empire, but short lived. Many political systems and practices in China today can still trace back to Qin-Han eras.

The Qin Dynasty was short lived, and it didn't have its chance to expand its influence to Central Asia and Siberia like the Han Dynasty has done.

However, the Qin Dynasty's meritocracy/legalism (法家) has paved the road for China to later become a superpower.

And to back into the system of the Qin-Han era, China needs to deeply reform the current feckless part of the Confucianism.

The Confucianism isn't all bad, but it needs to be deeply reformed.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Theye are seeking only more investments from big powers ( China , The EU , USA )

Central Asia is the GCC ( Saudi Arabia , Qatar , The UAE ) of Asia

Thanks to their rich gas and oil reserves, they have a very bright future and attract hundreds of billions of dollars in foreign investment, especially Kazakhstan.

Furthermore, Turkic countries are of key importance for China's OBOR Project.

Seeking investment is a tactic to play around with the great powers.

 

[_Arabia_]

Theye are seeking only more investments from big powers ( China , The EU , USA )

Central Asia is the GCC ( Saudi Arabia , Qatar , The UAE ) of Asia

Thanks to their rich gas and oil reserves, they have a very bright future and attract hundreds of billions of dollars in foreign investment, especially Kazakhstan.

Furthermore, Turkic countries are of key importance for China's OBOR Project.

Only Kazakhstan is rich.

Kyrgyzstan much like Tajikistan (only other Persian speaking country) is very poor.

Uzbekistan, despite having the by far largest population (40 + million people) is not as rich as Kazakhstan.

Turkmenistan is very rich in gas (very low population less than 6 million) but is ruled by a crazy regime and it is basically another North Korea.

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I have been to Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan as a small child so I don't remember much but if I were to visit again I would visit Uzbekistan (Bukhara, Khiva and Samarkand) for the architecture and South Kazakhstan (mountains) for the nature. Many Arabs visit Kazakhstan for hunting because past times such as horse breeding, falconry etc. is also part of their traditional culture. In fact Bedouin Arabs (nowadays 99% are settled but cultural practices remain and Arabs always had a division between urbanites/settled peoples and communities (towns and city people), farmers and Bedouins (pastoral nomads mostly) share quite a lot with their Turkic counterparts when it comes to falconry, horse racing/breeding, camel racing/breeding, this type of pastoralism, sheep herding, hunting, warrior tradition, harsh terrain and upbringing etc.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

No idea what they were but all the main haplogroups (if you go far enough back) originate in the Arab world and before that in East Africa (Horn of Africa).

The Aboriginals of Australia for instance are thought to have migrated from Arabia into first South Asia and later rough a land bridge to Australia via South East Asia.

Same with the Dravidians - there are some local Dravidian looking people in South Arabia (very isolated communities) who many experts/geneticists claim were/are the predecessors of those Dravidians that ventured into South Asia many 10.000's of years ago.

The Negritos of East and South East Asia are apparently also one of the earliest human migrations towards East Asia.

Negrito - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And what about those African-looking people on Sentinel island? I think that they are even older migrants than the Aboriginals that reached Australia some 60.000 years ago or so.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

The Negritos are the earliest Asians, but for some reason they have retained the archaic human appearance and haven't evolved with the progressive/refined features like their other close relatives in Asia.

 

[Indos]

The Negritos are the earliest Asians, but for some reason they have retained the archaic human appearance and haven't evolved with the progressive/refined features like their other close relatives in Asia.

The reason is because the migration through coast line, so it is why in India (Andaman) we also see them. Those who live in Central, East, and South East Asian are part of human migration through Europe then it dominates due to farming technique ( population growing fast). This is also the reason half Indonesians are in Java as it is the most fertile land

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The reason is because the migration through coast line, so it is why in India (Andaman) we also see them. Those who live in Central, East, and South East Asian are part of human migration through Europe then it dominates due to farming technique ( population growing fast). This is also the reason half Indonesians are in Java as it is the most fertile land

The early Homo sapiens had to the stay in the coastline of the southern Eurasia because the Neanderthals and Deninsovans dominated in the northern Eurasia.

Can't beat them when you technology was first inferior, only marched into their heartland when your technology has surpassed them.

 

[MMM-E]

Kyrgyzstan much like Tajikistan (only other Persian speaking country) is very poor.

Only Kyrgyzstan is poor

Kazakhstan is rich
Turkmenistan has the 4th largets gas reserves in the world and Uzbekhstan is growing

Turkic countries gained their independence after 1992
They need more times ( 25 years )

Dubai was so backward in 1980s

but today is different