The Case for Pakistan as a Civilizational State

[Neojinnah]

The fact that despite many powers coming and going it still unified into what appears to closely match the boundaries of the IVC. Technically we could say Indian Punjabis and Gujarat are more Pakistani than full Indian.

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This is not a coincedence.

It is completely coincidental. The demographics, culture, economy, society, etc of Pakistan are wildly different from ancient IVC for there to be a connection between the two.

Thank you for explaining your position. I respectfully disagree.

I will not have the birthright of Pakistan surrendered to either India (who claim it erroneously in its entirety) or to Iran by default (the only alternative that is even remotely plausible, on the basis of distant genetic descendancy)....or even leave it unclaimed.

You're right that Pakistan's inception and purpose had little to do with the IVC, but it is ours, as much as the air, land, mountains, and sea that exist within our bounds. Just as we would defend the smallest and most barren patch of nothingness within our borders, the same goes for a long lost and ancient civilisation that resided here and - importantly - did actually contribute massively to our modern genome, even if nothing else.

You're not arguing from a place of truth anymore, you're arguing as a partisan person. It doesn't make sense at all to me why Pakistanis should lie to themselves and make it more difficult to understand the nature and history of their own country and people to claim an ancient civilization which collapsed by itself.

 

[HamzaOI]

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[vasanthm]

How does sitting on the same land make Pakistan a continuation of the IVC? Harappa and Mohenjdaro are part of your heritage but that doesn't make Pakistan itself a civilisational state.

For India you can actually point to things people still do. Vedic hymns passed down for over 3000 years are still being chanted. Keralas Koodiyattam tradition goes back over 2000 years. Worship at the Chola temples, including Brihadisvara carries on traditions from roughly a thousand years ago. There are people keeping these things alive generation after generation linking the land culture and the people to present day India. Even UNESCO documents this. So what is the equivalent link between the IVC and Pakistani national identity? That’s the bit you still need to explain and you cannot.

Both republics are modern creations. But 'our country is new, our civilisation isnt' needs something behind it. The ruins are on your side of the border only gets you so far. You can’t just point at a map and call the argument is done and dusted.

 

[Master Chief]

How does sitting on the same land make Pakistan a continuation of the IVC?

Are Pakistanis migrants from somewhere or do we share actual DNA with Harappans?

 

[Master Chief]

You're not arguing from a place of truth anymore, you're arguing as a partisan person. It doesn't make sense at all to me why Pakistanis should lie to themselves and make it more difficult to understand the nature and history of their own country and people to claim an ancient civilization which collapsed by itself.

It doesn't have to make sense to you. Facts are Facts.

The Harappan genomeE gave RISE TO modern Pakistanis.

 

[vasanthm]

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Are Pakistanis migrants from somewhere or do we share actual DNA with Harappans?View attachment 215015

Nobody said your ancestors arrived in 1947, on a lighter note your state might claim so.

You inherit DNA from your ancestors, not their institutions, beliefs and cultural practices through your chromosomes. That’s the continuity you need to demonstrate.

The question was how Pakistan continues Harappan civilisation or for that matter has any civilisational link to it, not whether Pakistanis had great grandparents. A pie chart isn’t going to bridge that gap.

If anything, you could make a clearer case for civilisational links with Arabia through Islam, or Persia through language, literature and culture. Those connections actually show up in everyday Pakistani life. But apparently when it comes to Harappa, a DNA chart will do instead