India Has Lost Air Superiority to Pakistan, No Jets Left to Fight

[Meengla]

When you change the topic from IAF or Indian indigenous weapons, that means you have conceded the argument... you can brag about India sponsoring terrorism to tie up Pak Army but that is a separate topic.

A land war between India and Pakistan is almost out of question now. The video I posted above where Indians are discussing a war between Pakistan and India. And the analyst in that video made a very good point: How can India cut Pakistan into two despite Pakistan's narrow geography when the vast majority of Pakistanis live in Sindh and Punjab? Any occupying Indian Army would face horrible attacks in those two provinces.

And similar arguments could be applied about India taking over the Pakistani parts of Kashmir (Azad Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan): The Indian occupying force would be stretched thin for hundreds of miles to the Afghan border while sitting on top of Pakistan proper's very hostile, armed population.

To sum up, India's 'Cold Strike' Doctrine was as stupid as 'taking back' the Pakistani administered parts of Kashmir. Just look at how inefficient the Indians are when it comes to industriousness when you watch the OP video from about minute 8.

 

[Yasser76]

Indian asses burning tonight, great to see

 

[samsite84]

When you change the topic from IAF or Indian indigenous weapons, that means you have conceded the argument... you can brag about India sponsoring terrorism to tie up Pak Army but that is a separate topic.

Ahem ahem... there is a context and bigger picture, talking about a failure here, a failure there without looking at the overall progress is akin to looking for spots on the moon and not enjoying the moonlight.

What I mentioned are overall success of having a robust defense structure - which wouldn't exist if everything is a failure...

 

[AeronautIR]

Ahem ahem... there is a context and bigger picture, talking about a failure here, a failure there without looking at the overall progress is akin to looking for spots on the moon and not enjoying the moonlight.

What I mentioned are overall success of having a robust defense structure - which wouldn't exist if everything is a failure...

This is just an excuse and a failure here and there is not accepted by your lot, so let's leave it at that...
I will take this bigger picture narrative more seriously if you admit to the long list of failures like, Tejas, Kaveri, Yashas etc.
So before we go to sub-conventional domain, let's close the topic of how the 4th largest airforce was thrashed by a country that has so many other problems.

 

[Feroze]

You, my friend, always nail it! Plus look at how India and Pakistan look to the Westerners who go to both countries. Even the popular NZ blogger Carl Rock, who is married to an Indian and lives in India, carefully points out the better aspects of Pakistan.

The negative perceptions and downhill trajectory of Pakistan in the blogspace is exaggerated where many Pakistanis are targeting Pakistan due to Pakistan's domestic politics and such Pakistanis are duly aided by the Indian and the Afghan bloggers. But in reality Pakistan has improved a lot since the near-collapse of 2022/23 and is going to keep improving unless there is a major regional war which drags Pakistan in deeply.

Yes I heard Pakistan has improved greatly since the 1990's. Everything else is exaggeration or propaganda against Pakistan.

 

[Meengla]

What I mentioned are overall success of having a robust defense structure - which wouldn't exist if everything is a failure...

India has the advantage of a large land mass and deep pockets. The deep pockets enable India to amass potent missiles like the Brahmos. And as far as I can tell, those are India's major advantages over Pakistan. Pakistan is hobbled by much weaker economy and a much less strategic depth.
In a prolonged war without external help--any external help-- I am afraid Pakistan's odd are not good faced with some distinct Indian advantages, as I mentioned above. But then... a Pakistan being destroyed while having the nukes is a huge factor to prevent a Dooms Day scenario.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

I have no competition of be-ghairati. You and your fellow friends here are No 1. Talking about be-ghairati:
1) Defense - get air bases and terrorist centers bombed but talk about a few jets (if that)
2) Economy - far lagging in GDP/capita and PPP/capita but throw stones at India (and Indians)
3) Sports - Asian games, cricket etc. - for every 1 medal India won 10 I guess? Cricket - forget about it
4) Press freedom - media people threatened and had to leave the state yet want to talk about India's press freedom

You guys have PHDs here, I am a noob

See you boasting nonsense ego of yours over Pakistan and we are not responsible of any big terrorist event in India

Since 2001 (Pakistan and India stand-off) to Phelgam attack were your beloved RAW dramas to do propaganda against Pakistan

You're the biggest mess/threat for the peace of the Subcontinent

Jay terrorist HIND

 

[Meengla]

See you boasting nonsense ego of yours over Pakistan and we are not responsible of any big terrorist event in India

The video posted above where the (mostly) sane Indian analyst is talking about Pakistan vs India is a window to the Indian archaic mindset about Per that guy, Pakistan is raising a force of '100,000 suicide bombers' to attack India inside the Indian Occupied Kashmir. How bizarre that Indian mindset is. How anachronistic, given how much Pakistan has suffered from the Goddamn suicide bombers in the last quarter century. When one is indoctrinated to the point of becoming a suicide bomber then that person is a loose cannon and likely to be more destructive to its mentors than to the enemies.

Indians have really not been following the changes in Pakistan in last quarter century. The Pakistan of today is reverting from General Zia's 'Islam' to a hard-state with Geo-economics as its priority. But sadly India itself is on some strange civilizational revival like the Nazis, the Israeli Likuds are under the Modi regime. And in age where ideologies are dying--even in Islamic countries, if I dare say so-- India and Israel are so strangely anachronistic. And that's not good for them or for their neighbors.

 

[Blain2]

Yes I heard Pakistan has improved greatly since the 1990's. Everything else is exaggeration or propaganda against Pakistan.

If its misplaced, then obviously it is a canard used to do propaganda. What is so unusual about that?

 

[Trailer23]

On A2G, IAF is far superior as we saw in Sindoor. In A2A, PAF is equivalent in short skirmishes, in longer duration (a month) - I believe IAF will have the edge.

So basically, in your assessment...

A2G: IAF > PAF
A2A: IAF = PAF

...and in longer duration: IAF > PAF

So lets break it from recent skirmishes, huh.

2019
A2G: You launched the Masala Spice2000 Bombs off the Mirage 2000s'.
Ehhhh, any camera footage of your strikes?
The very next day, we did the same (in broad daylight, you p#ssy) - and their video evidence of it.

A2A: Atleast we can prove MiG-21 kill with Abhi-Nandos that we got on Offer.
Where is your kill? You guys claimed that Abhi shot down a Viper. Funny, all 4 of his missiles were displayed on a buffet table for Journalist to see.

2025
A2G: Yes, you guys have made some improvements. I'll give you that.
But we got your S-400's too - weither you want to accept it or not.

A2A: Seems like you got bitten on the @$$ again, 'cause this time - the numbers were high.
Care to share what you guys have achieved A2A?

And finally, on what World or the Multiverse are you under the illusion that you will get the better of us in a Month...

Care to re-check the condition and number of your current Squadrons. Its already been established that at any given point, your Su-30MKi fleet is operational at 20%.

So, what are you gonna send...?
Jaguars or TEJAs

 

[samsite84]

This is just an excuse and a failure here and there is not accepted by your lot, so let's leave it at that...
I will take this bigger picture narrative more seriously if you admit to the long list of failures like, Tejas, Kaveri, Yashas etc.
So before we go to sub-conventional domain, let's close the topic of how the 4th largest airforce was thrashed by a country that has so many other problems.

Okay - now staying with the 4th largest airforce getting thrashed. Sure PAF will claim victory as has been discussed beforehand but here are some facts which I (as an Indian) believe where IAF came out on top:

1) Hit targets well beyond IB, cratering runways, destroying terrorist buildings - that is indisputable
2) Successfully deployed A2G weapons to do so from long range
3) Lost a few planes (3 perhaps 4) - shouldn't have happened but the other side has right to respond and some damage will occur
4) No loss of airforce pilots - that is undisputed
5) At the end, according to India's version Pakistan DGMO asked for ceasefire. Pakistan says it was mutual - it never claimed that India asked for ceasefire. As an India, this is telling for me as if Pakistan would be winning, it would at least claim that Indian side called for ceasefire but no, only India is claiming that.

In the battle of narratives (big picture), India increased the red-lines and IAF played a role in that. To me that is success. You might see it differently...

On the contrary, the defenders couldn't do any independently verifiable damage on ground, most likely lost 1 HVT (Bholari one) and could only damage a few planes (we've heard theories of "restraint" not to escalate.

 

[AeronautIR]

Okay - now staying with the 4th largest airforce getting thrashed. Sure PAF will claim victory as has been discussed beforehand but here are some facts which I (as an Indian) believe where IAF came out on top:

1) Hit targets well beyond IB, cratering runways, destroying terrorist buildings - that is indisputable
2) Successfully deployed A2G weapons to do so from long range
3) Lost a few planes (3 perhaps 4) - shouldn't have happened but the other side has right to respond and some damage will occur
4) No loss of airforce pilots - that is undisputed
5) At the end, according to India's version Pakistan DGMO asked for ceasefire. Pakistan says it was mutual - it never claimed that India asked for ceasefire. As an India, this is telling for me as if Pakistan would be winning, it would at least claim that Indian side called for ceasefire but no, only India is claiming that.

In the battle of narratives (big picture), India increased the red-lines and IAF played a role in that. To me that is success. You might see it differently...

On the contrary, the defenders couldn't do any independently verifiable damage on ground, most likely lost 1 HVT (Bholari one) and could only damage a few planes (we've heard theories of "restraint" not to escalate.

Just as I expected
I can tear all this apart but your intellectual dishonesty tells me it is a waste of time... regarding evidence, I won't go any further than saying that I can bet my pension you can't show any evidence of claims like 300 km kill, 13 PAF aircraft destroyed, 2 C2 nodes destroyed etc. It is more than a year and you only have satellite photos of a hole in maintenance hangar's roof. Anyway, already wasted enough time with you. Let's just wait for 2.0.

 

[PK781]

can the indians ever stay on topic?

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Okay - now staying with the 4th largest airforce getting thrashed. Sure PAF will claim victory as has been discussed beforehand but here are some facts which I (as an Indian) believe where IAF came out on top:

1) Hit targets well beyond IB, cratering runways, destroying terrorist buildings - that is indisputable
2) Successfully deployed A2G weapons to do so from long range
3) Lost a few planes (3 perhaps 4) - shouldn't have happened but the other side has right to respond and some damage will occur
4) No loss of airforce pilots - that is undisputed
5) At the end, according to India's version Pakistan DGMO asked for ceasefire. Pakistan says it was mutual - it never claimed that India asked for ceasefire. As an India, this is telling for me as if Pakistan would be winning, it would at least claim that Indian side called for ceasefire but no, only India is claiming that.

In the battle of narratives (big picture), India increased the red-lines and IAF played a role in that. To me that is success. You might see it differently...

On the contrary, the defenders couldn't do any independently verifiable damage on ground, most likely lost 1 HVT (Bholari one) and could only damage a few planes (we've heard theories of "restraint" not to escalate.

lol, and we did the same we damaged your airbases from IOK to Gujrat and your own social media showing damage to your airbases and don't tell us your LAYERED AD SYSTEMS intercepted all (100%) Pakistani missiles, No LAYERED AD and ABM SYSTEMS are 100% accurate and foolproof, we saw and seeing rather raw Iranian BMs/cruise missiles and drones can bypass WORLD BEST AIR DEFENSE AND ANTI BALLISTIC MISSILE SYSTEM like PAC-3/THAAD/SM-3/SM-6/Aster-15/Aster-30/Arrow-2/Arrow-3/David sling/Iron dome etc etc or you have some vadic Vinama (UFO) tech to shoot down our all (100%) Pakistani Missiles? lol

 

[samsite84]

lol, and we did the same we damaged your airbases from IOK to Gujrat and your own social media showing damage to your airbases and don't tell us your LAYERED AD SYSTEMS intercepted all (100%) Pakistani missiles, No LAYERED AD and ABM SYSTEMS are 100% accurate and foolproof, we saw and seeing rather raw Iranian BMs/cruise missiles and drones can bypass WORLD BEST AIR DEFENSE AND ANTI BALLISTIC MISSILE SYSTEM like PAC-3/THAAD/SM-3/SM-6/Aster-15/Aster-30/Arrow-2/Arrow-3/David sling/Iron dome etc etc or you have some vadic Vinama (UFO) tech to shoot down our all (100%) Pakistani Missiles? lol

As @AeronautIR said lets wait for round 2. It has to be as definitive as Bangladesh or Siachen for Pakistani members here to concede. And I wish that Indian government if and when it resumes hostilities next, only ceases after a point where we there can be no debate on who won - only the reasons of why Pakistan lost