India Has Lost Air Superiority to Pakistan, No Jets Left to Fight

[Meengla]

Err no, after the bitch slapping he got in Sindhoor, Modi just ain’t so keen to call out Pakistan for sponsoring terror attacks as he used to be. Remember the blast in Delhi where lives were lost? Happened after Sindhoor so how come Modi and Co didn’t blame Pakistan on the same day even before investigation — which is exactly what they did with the Palagam attack??? Instead they played the whole thing down like ‘nothing to see here’. Why such a profound change of approach in such a short space of time???Now go count how many Ra-fails you got left.

Good point. I was thinking about the Delhi blast myself but decided not to bring it up.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

no, India has not lost air superiority.

rather, we have gained it (for the time being, only!)


further, there is a shift in Indian approach of deploying MKIs, majority of the fleet will now be operationalized as a precision strike unit, deploying ALBM.


this will only create major challenge for PAF, so... I do agree IAf has lost superiority but as far as doctrine goes, they have achieved more operational independence.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Good point. I was thinking about the Delhi blast myself but decided not to bring it up.

It was failed false flag staged after Pulwama but forget to call it of after Sindoor failure but as per pre arranged things agents tried to carry out blast in Delhi but failed. That time Indian Govt brush it off under the carpet and did not put blame on Pakistan because of fear of retaliation.
This operation was planned with Kashmir Killing of tourists and operation Sindoor was launched that is why Indian Govt call operation Sindoor on going because they have pre planned staged attack on Delhi but after getting brutally beaten they pause this operation but failed to convey message to R&AW agents who tried to carry out bombing at Delhi fort but failed premature explosion.

 

[Meengla]

no, India has not lost air superiority.
rather, we have gained it (for the time being, only!)
further, there is a shift in Indian approach of deploying MKIs, majority of the fleet will now be operationalized as a precision strike unit, deploying ALBM.
this will only create major challenge for PAF, so... I do agree IAf has lost superiority but as far as doctrine goes, they have achieved more operational independence.

Generally, I avoid military hardware discussions because I don't have a good understanding of them. However, browsing various Indian media, there is deep despondency about the state of the Indian Airforce and about how effectively China is able to help Pakistan. Indians are not stupid people and they are acutely aware of the widening imbalance with Pakistan when it comes to fighter jets and even on the drones.

We should not forget that India has a much larger border area to protect unlike Pakistan's. Pakistan really doesn't have to worry about its western borders despite Afghanistan and Iran (the war on Iran). India has the Chinese and the Pakistani frontiers to deal with even after ignoring fronts like Bangladesh.

Also, the recent upgrades of 70+ Pakistani F-16s, which the Pakistanis downplay officially, has significantly added to Pakistan's air force arsenal. Indians too generally downplay that for some reasons!

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Generally, I avoid military hardware discussions because I don't have a good understanding of them. However, browsing various Indian media, there is deep despondency about the state of the Indian Airforce and about how effectively China is able to help Pakistan. Indians are not stupid people and they are acutely aware of the widening imbalance with Pakistan when it comes to fighter jets and even on the drones.

We should not forget that India has a much larger border area to protect unlike Pakistan's. Pakistan really doesn't have to worry about its western borders despite Afghanistan and Iran (the war on Iran). India has the Chinese and the Pakistani frontiers to deal with even after ignoring fronts like Bangladesh.

Also, the recent upgrades of 70+ Pakistani F-16s, which the Pakistanis downplay officially, has significantly added to Pakistan's air force arsenal. Indians too generally downplay that for some reasons!

I dont buy this f-16 story telling..

we dont have the leverage to use F-16s and even if we do, we have IMF debt roll overs to negotiate with the USA (almost on quarterly basis now!)


in other words, F-16s are only good at limiting our options!


further, India is also working GAN based radars on different platforms including AWACS. Erosion of air superiority is only a matter of time.

 

[Meengla]

I dont buy this f-16 story telling..
we dont have the leverage to use F-16s and even if we do, we have IMF debt roll overs to negotiate with the USA (almost on quarterly basis now!)
in other words, F-16s are only good at limiting our options!

And I have never bought the theory that Pakistan's F-16s can't be used against India. Indeed, they have been and Indians bitch about that all the time for some good reasons. Pakistan doesn't need the F-16s to bomb the terrorists from Afghanistan, even though they have been occasionally used. The F-16s are for India and the Indians know that quite well. And from what I learned, during Operation Sindoor of May 2025, Pakistan had deployed its F-16s for that few hours of air combat but the F-16s were not up to par with India's Rafaele and so played secondary role.

The Trump Administration has finally approved Pakistan's F-16s upgrade request some 10-12 months ago--a request which was made in 2021/22 but was denied then (Biden). The upgrades have made the 70+ Pakistani ageing F-16s almost Rafael matching. Both Pakistan and India officials have downplayed that upgrade but I believe that happened! Trump is India's worst nightmare, BTW!

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

And I have never bought the theory that Pakistan's F-16s can't be used against India. Indeed, they have been and Indians bitch about that all the time for some good reasons. Pakistan doesn't need the F-16s to bomb the terrorists from Afghanistan, even though they have been occasionally used. The F-16s are for India and the Indians know that quite well. And from what I learned, during Operation Sindoor of May 2025, Pakistan had deployed its F-16s for that few hours of air combat but the F-16s were not up to par with India's Rafaele and so played secondary role.

The Trump Administration has finally approved Pakistan's F-16s upgrade request some 10-12 months ago--a request which was made in 2021/22 but was denied then (Biden). The upgrades have made the 70+ Pakistani ageing F-16s almost Rafael matching. Both Pakistan and India officials have downplayed that upgrade but I believe that happened! Trump is India's worst nightmare, BTW!

all I know is, F-16s or not, the IAF has now extended range of precision guided ammunition available that does not even need 'air superiority'!



worst thing is, they have the finance to absorb the damage!


I hate to admit it, our economic deterioration is hurting our odds of survival.


I hope you realize the paradox here!

it is not the weapon rather it is 'economic freedom' to deploy the weapon in number that matters!

further, IAF's incompetence (and our brilliance) will balance out also, bec. it wont be IAF, that we will be fighting!


I dont see very good results coming out here, without deployment of rocket force along with PAF!

 

[Vikramaditya1]

There is a reason Afghanistan is now regarded as the bigger threat to Pakistan than India is.

Hint: it is NOT that Afg somehow got stronger.

Because your soldiers are dying at the hands of TTP as TTP thought they can replicate Afghan success against Pakistan. And in KP you just declared an emergency.

Hint: Safest place for Pak soldiers is now India Pak border and LOC for a reason.

 

[Yasser76]

Because your soldiers are dying at the hands of TTP as TTP thought they can replicate Afghan success against Pakistan. And in KP you just declared an emergency.

Hint: Safest place for Pak soldiers is now India Pak border and LOC for a reason.

I know the state of IAF upsets you, but try and stick to the thread topic? How hard can it be?

 

[Yasser76]

all I know is, F-16s or not, the IAF has now extended range of precision guided ammunition available that does not even need 'air superiority'!



worst thing is, they have the finance to absorb the damage!


I hate to admit it, our economic deterioration is hurting our odds of survival.


I hope you realize the paradox here!

it is not the weapon rather it is 'economic freedom' to deploy the weapon in number that matters!

further, IAF's incompetence (and our brilliance) will balance out also, bec. it wont be IAF, that we will be fighting!


I dont see very good results coming out here, without deployment of rocket force along with PAF!

IAF relying on stand off missiles and generally conceding local air superiority to Pakistan gives Pakistan the ability to absolutely pound Indian troop formations and positions with LGBs. Yes, they can reach our bases but PAF have acheived what it needs to, keeping IAF off Pak Army's back and taking out its formations, lets not lose site of the bigger picture here.

 

[Meengla]

all I know is, F-16s or not, the IAF has now extended range of precision guided ammunition available that does not even need 'air superiority'!
worst thing is, they have the finance to absorb the damage!

Well, yes, I often say here that India's much larger economy gives it some advantages, especially about mass producing the hypersonics like the Brahmos. Never underestimate your enemy. But I am unconvinced that India's advantage is overwhelming: Pakistan can destroy much of Mumbai and Delhi using Pakistan's conventional missiles alone.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

IAF relying on stand off missiles and generally conceding local air superiority to Pakistan gives Pakistan the ability to absolutely pound Indian troop formations and positions with LGBs. Yes, they can reach our bases but PAF have acheived what it needs to, keeping IAF off Pak Army's back and taking out its formations, lets not lose site of the bigger picture here.

of course, not denying that...

but this scenario does not take into account our FX rate, petrol availability, national debt and GDP!



interestingly, our FX rate sees unknown levels of depreciation after every 10 years, next one is coming in 6 months!


I could destroy all the indian troops, but then what?

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Well, yes, I often say here that India's much larger economy gives it some advantages, especially about mass producing the hypersonics like the Brahmos. Never underestimate your enemy. But I am unconvinced that India's advantage is overwhelming: Pakistan can destroy much of Mumbai and Delhi using Pakistan's conventional missiles alone.

great logic sir, Pak. can destroy all India up to GOA!

 

[ustaad]

all I know is, F-16s or not, the IAF has now extended range of precision guided ammunition available that does not even need 'air superiority'!



worst thing is, they have the finance to absorb the damage!


I hate to admit it, our economic deterioration is hurting our odds of survival.


I hope you realize the paradox here!

it is not the weapon rather it is 'economic freedom' to deploy the weapon in number that matters!

further, IAF's incompetence (and our brilliance) will balance out also, bec. it wont be IAF, that we will be fighting!


I dont see very good results coming out here, without deployment of rocket force along with PAF!

To overcome the limitation of quantity, our targets should be of highest caliber to exact the most painful damage possible, say PM House, President House, Parliament and military headquarters.

 

[Yasser76]

of course, not denying that...

but this scenario does not take into account our FX rate, petrol availability, national debt and GDP!



interestingly, our FX rate sees unknown levels of depreciation after every 10 years, next one is coming in 6 months!


I could destroy all the indian troops, but then what?

That, with respect, is another debate, we can go into that, but in a short sharp war much of that will not be relevant. So many other variables we could go down another rabbit hole (Saudi money, Pak economy improving, Chinese help etc etc)

For the point of this thread, losing air superiority locally will do two things

1) Enable CAS to Pak Army unhindered
2) Spare many more of our aircraft to go after high level Indian assets (Ground Bhramos, S-400 radars etc)
3) Enable constant bombing of nearby bases that will be left undefended

One also has to remember, the main carrier of Indian long rage missiles will be 30 off SU-30s and 28 odd Rafales. Some of them may not be in service and some will be dedicated to other operational tasks, or in the case of Rafale kept back in reserve to protect these assets
Air launched Bhramos and SCALP numbers will always be limited too.


The flip side is lower tier PAF assets (Mirages and JF-17 I&IIs) can go around striking Indian bases worry free like they did in 2019