IHC judges lay bare interference of establishment in judicial affairs

[HAIDER]

PTI is done.Everyone who is part of Govt is happy because everyone has got something to latch on.

Don't worry, IK brought awareness among the young generation. All romances are over now, only reality bites. Now people are in a low tone saying ...establishment wants to break the country .........

 

[SaadH]

lols are you for real ya patwar khanay may demagh chor dia hai! ecp had to remove forged form 45 from their website.

ISI ka sector commander maloom hota hai

 

[Prometheus]

Don't worry, IK brought awareness among the young generation. All romances are over now, only reality bites. Now people are in a low tone saying ...establishment wants to break the country .........

 

[Signalian]

Everyone should go through the whole letter. Some notable excerpts:

1- A judge moved to an official residence and his home had video cameras in hidden places (under a light fixture)
2- Brother in law of a judge was kidnapped, coerced to get a favorable judgement, and tortured with electric shocks
3- Crackers thrown into homes of Sessions judge.
4- IHC CJ did not sign this letter, and he has been told about all of this many times before in private.

This really does throw the credibility of all those convictions on IK into the trash can.

Our intel apparatus is busy with these shenanigans while terrorists go and blow up our bases every single day.

Pathetic.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

I have no intention of downplaying your thread. Lekin seriously, yeh sab bachon wali batain hain. Kindergarten of intelligence affairs.

Intelligence agencies within democracies (notable examples being in Australia, Canada, France, Israel, the UK and the USA) are alleged to engage in covert political manipulation (foreign and domestic), terrorism, assassinations, drug-dealing, torture, violations of international law, political persecution, kidnappings, inflaming political extremism. for variously suggested motivations. The CIA and Mossad (USA and Israel, respectively) are the most frequent targets of these kinds of criticism. This is what intelligence agencies do.

For example, there isn't any political appetite that can be satisfied which can point towards circumstances or need of countries, because those in power want those agencies to get done what needs to be done. This can be seen repeatedly in every Government that comes into power. Otherwise, the FBI, CIA, NSA, among others, would have been thoroughly rooted out decades ago. Not just USA, every intel agency of its own country is used above and beyond by its current Government.

In all above mentioned countries, yes there are bodies within Government, parliament and judiciary which have oversight of their intelligence agencies, in addition to accountability through the executive branch. However, there are differences in the nature and scope of each of those components. This is similar in Pakistan's case, however the tussle between ISI and IB keeps going as to who gets an upper hand in reporting separately to military and Government respectively but both have to work jointly at the end, which means Government and military have to stand aligned on the same footing eventually.

So the information related to the posts in this thread and otherwise in forum will keep occurring and thats just Intel agencies doing what Government thinks needs to be done. Its considered routine as surveillance and other tactics to keep an eye on red flags.

The issue here is lack of trust, an insecurity generated against Pakistan's military and there is nothing that will take that insecurity away from disgruntled ones within public since the intel agencies will do whatever is necessary to get done what they are tasked to get done, without giving away all information as to why such decision was made. The decisions taken for surveillance, or espionage or any other conduct undertaken by intel agencies will give away the method of initiating that process and the collection of information. However, such summaries are presented to the concerned bodies when questions are asked by the different bodies of Government including parliament. Much of that explanation comes under the form of necessary methods for national security and thats that, since compromise on national security comes on top.

This is where the question arises again regarding the merit and basis of an action undertaken for the sake of "national security", however because of the current atmosphere, everything that Government asks intel agencies to do, will form a conspiracy theory against that very action with a certified agenda that Pakistan is being destabilized through hook or crook. At least public will think that.

Next is accountability. It is very well known that somebody will be made a scapegoat if ever the process comes to light at the of the tunnel. The decision makers (Government+military) have already set the ball rolling to start a process of an intel operation. That intel Ops may involve taking extreme measures against one political party or any other entity. So it’s not one person usually making the decision for that intel ops, there are multiple stakeholders. The decision has some background based on gathering of intel information. That information may or may not be possible to share with any department (including judiciary in 95% of cases) and certainly not made public. Sometimes a false lead maybe given to nosey journalists so they start sniffing in some other direction.

Governments of every country will keep a hold on its departments, its public, its national security, and opposing political affiliations including media. In Pakistan's case, some methods seem unjustified, while other methods never come to light. The stringent a campaign gains momentum against Government, the methods employed by Intel agencies become rigorous and uncompromising. The use of media is a serious threat and this tug of war will be continued on both fronts, however, the Government will eventually take hold and it usually does.

What is intriguing is that if Pakistan is now forming a Chinese model of controlling everything or trying to control everything that happens inside Pakistan through intel agencies ? Is this Chinese motivated or is it some from of a Russian model that continuously keeps Putin in power ? Is Turkey forming a similar Government model by control keeping Erdogan continuously in power ?

The mistrust and the insecurity is an issue faced by Pakistanis against Government and Military, but a stage has now arrived where Government will do as it deems fit and necessary. The Government will take that decision based on Pakistan's national interests where as public will always see that decision as a step taken against betterment of Pakistan. By the looks of it, Government is unhinged on its policies.

 

[Signalian]

...establishment wants to break the country .........

Is there a perfect time for that ? I mean why not already and get over with it.

Government will never break the country and or let anyone break the country. Now for your sake I can say, its in Government's own interest to rule Pakistan. No Pakistan, no Government, no Military- hopefully that satisfies the conspiracy theorists and zealous media journalists. In reality, Pakistan will keep rolling forward through Government and military, have faith.

 

[Signalian]

So, PMLN and MQM won 2024 election fair and square?

Neither did IK win fair and square in 2018. Elections were rigged and IK accepted the result instead of contesting it because the result favored him. IK got in bed with military notably Bajwa and started singing praises for Bajwa and military as long as IK remained in power. IK lost all morals, integrity, and uprightness accepting rigged elections and accepting the intel agencies(military) role not only in bringing him in power but keeping control over all state affairs. IK only started yelling when he lost power.

 

[Prometheus]

Neither did IK win fair and square in 2018. Elections were rigged and IK accepted the result instead of contesting it because the result favored him. IK got in bed with military notably Bajwa and started singing praises for Bajwa and military as long as IK remained in power. IK lost all morals, integrity, and uprightness accepting rigged elections and accepting the intel agencies(military) role not only in bringing him in power but keeping control over all state affairs. IK only started yelling when he lost power.

IK did win 2018 elections, otherwise we would have seen same tactics of pre poll rigging i.e mass arrests and dozen of cases against individuals.Junta fails to understand and grasp the fact that populace is now fed up of their shenanigans.
P.S:-If a person of your intellect , has to retort to whataboutism for defending your Gods, then on can easily understand how much deep that rot goes.

 

[Prometheus]

Is there a perfect time for that ? I mean why not already and get over with it.

Government will never break the country and or let anyone break the country. Now for your sake I can say, it’s in Government's own interest to rule Pakistan. No Pakistan, no Government, no Military- hopefully that satisfies the conspiracy theorists and zealous media journalists. In reality, Pakistan will keep rolling forward through Government and military, have faith.

-Bankrupt.
-Politically unstable.
-Thousands of active terrorists in almost half of country.
-Incompetence
-Lack of meritocracy
-Populace which feels disenfranchised.
-Population which is totally distrustful of its own country.
I hope you have heard about “Cognitive Warfare”,it’s basically set of tools used to engineer downfall of countries using their own Government.

 

[Prometheus]

I have no intention of downplaying your thread. Lekin seriously, yeh sab bachon wali batain hain. Kindergarten of intelligence affairs.

Intelligence agencies within democracies (notable examples being in Australia, Canada, France, Israel, the UK and the USA) are alleged to engage in covert political manipulation (foreign and domestic), terrorism, assassinations, drug-dealing, torture, violations of international law, political persecution, kidnappings, inflaming political extremism. for variously suggested motivations. The CIA and Mossad (USA and Israel, respectively) are the most frequent targets of these kinds of criticism. This is what intelligence agencies do.

For example, there isn't any political appetite that can be satisfied which can point towards circumstances or need of countries, because those in power want those agencies to get done what needs to be done. This can be seen repeatedly in every Government that comes into power. Otherwise, the FBI, CIA, NSA, among others, would have been thoroughly rooted out decades ago. Not just USA, every intel agency of its own country is used above and beyond by its current Government.

In all above mentioned countries, yes there are bodies within Government, parliament and judiciary which have oversight of their intelligence agencies, in addition to accountability through the executive branch. However, there are differences in the nature and scope of each of those components. This is similar in Pakistan's case, however the tussle between ISI and IB keeps going as to who gets an upper hand in reporting separately to military and Government respectively but both have to work jointly at the end, which means Government and military have to stand aligned on the same footing eventually.

So the information related to the posts in this thread and otherwise in forum will keep occurring and thats just Intel agencies doing what Government thinks needs to be done. Its considered routine as surveillance and other tactics to keep an eye on red flags.

The issue here is lack of trust, an insecurity generated against Pakistan's military and there is nothing that will take that insecurity away from disgruntled ones within public since the intel agencies will do whatever is necessary to get done what they are tasked to get done, without giving away all information as to why such decision was made. The decisions taken for surveillance, or espionage or any other conduct undertaken by intel agencies will give away the method of initiating that process and the collection of information. However, such summaries are presented to the concerned bodies when questions are asked by the different bodies of Government including parliament. Much of that explanation comes under the form of necessary methods for national security and thats that, since compromise on national security comes on top.

This is where the question arises again regarding the merit and basis of an action undertaken for the sake of "national security", however because of the current atmosphere, everything that Government asks intel agencies to do, will form a conspiracy theory against that very action with a certified agenda that Pakistan is being destabilized through hook or crook. At least public will think that.

Next is accountability. It is very well known that somebody will be made a scapegoat if ever the process comes to light at the of the tunnel. The decision makers (Government+military) have already set the ball rolling to start a process of an intel operation. That intel Ops may involve taking extreme measures against one political party or any other entity. So it’s not one person usually making the decision for that intel ops, there are multiple stakeholders. The decision has some background based on gathering of intel information. That information may or may not be possible to share with any department (including judiciary in 95% of cases) and certainly not made public. Sometimes a false lead maybe given to nosey journalists so they start sniffing in some other direction.

Governments of every country will keep a hold on its departments, its public, its national security, and opposing political affiliations including media. In Pakistan's case, some methods seem unjustified, while other methods never come to light. The stringent a campaign gains momentum against Government, the methods employed by Intel agencies become rigorous and uncompromising. The use of media is a serious threat and this tug of war will be continued on both fronts, however, the Government will eventually take hold and it usually does.

What is intriguing is that if Pakistan is now forming a Chinese model of controlling everything or trying to control everything that happens inside Pakistan through intel agencies ? Is this Chinese motivated or is it some from of a Russian model that continuously keeps Putin in power ? Is Turkey forming a similar Government model by control keeping Erdogan continuously in power ?

The mistrust and the insecurity is an issue faced by Pakistanis against Government and Military, but a stage has now arrived where Government will do as it deems fit and necessary. The Government will take that decision based on Pakistan's national interests where as public will always see that decision as a step taken against betterment of Pakistan. By the looks of it, Government is unhinged on its policies.

 

[AsaRad1]

please stop this "ya fauj bhi meri" bs mouaziz idara is rotten to the core and the only wau forward for Pakisran is hanging every last one of the uniformed thug!

You are a traitor to PTI and anti-Pakistan extremist

"mulk bhi mera, aur fauj bhi meri" - Imran Khan

 

[ghazi52]

SC takes suo motu after Jillani nixes panel​

Former CJ recused himself from heading inquiry commission on judges’ letter

Hasnaat Malik
April 01, 2024

The six IHC judges who wrote a letter alleging interference by the country's intelligence services in judicial matters. Top row: Justice Sardar Ejaz Ishaq Khan, Justice Saman Rafat Imtiaz, Justice Tariq Mehmood Jahangiri. Bottom row: Justice Arbab Muhammad Tahir, Justice Mohsin Akhtar Kayani, Justice Babar Sattar.

ISLAMABAD: In a quick turn of events, the Supreme Court on Monday took suo motu notice of a letter written by six Islamabad High Court (IHC) judges, alleging interference by the country’s intelligence apparatus in judicial affairs.

The move came after former chief justice of Pakistan Tassaduq Hussain Jillani recused himself from heading a one-man inquiry commission formed by the government to investigate the claims.

The situation unfolded after a group of lawyers and civil society members on Sunday urged the top court to initiate suo motu proceedings on the matter, as it rejected the ‘powerless’ one-man commission.

Through a letter, they urged the top court to take “cognisance of the matter in its jurisdiction under Article 184(3) of the Constitution as this issue eminently relates to public interest and to the enforcement of fundamental rights”.

In a startling letter written to the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC) members, the IHC judges had accused the country’s intelligence apparatus of pressurizing judges through abduction and torture of their relatives and secret surveillance inside their homes.

The letter, addressed to Chief Justice Qazi Faez Isa, Supreme Court Justices Mansoor Ali Shah and Munib Akhtar and chief justices of the IHC and the Peshawar High Court, also questioned if there exists a state police to “intimidate” and coerce judges.

The letter, dated March 25, was signed by Justices Mohsin Akhtar Kayani, Tariq Mehmood Jahangiri, Babar Sattar, Sardar Ejaz Ishaq Khan, Arbab Muhammad Tahir and Saman Rafat Imtiaz of the IHC.

According to the roster issued on Monday, the bench will comprise Chief Justice Qazi Faez Isa, Justice Syed Mansoor Ali Shah, Justice Yahya Afridi, Justice Jamal Khan Mandokhail, Justice Athar Minallah, Justice Musarrat Hilali and Justice Naeem Akhtar Afghan. The case will be taken up on Wednesday (April 3) at 11:30am.

It is learnt that being chairman of the committee, the chief justice suggested taking the suo motu notice which was endorsed by committee members Justice Syed Mansoor Ali Shah and Justice Munib Akhtar.

Earlier in his letter sent to Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif dated April 1, the former chief justice said, "Since the letter is addressed to the members of the Supreme Judicial Council and its chairman, the chief justice of Pakistan, it would be violative of judicial propriety for me to inquire into a matter which may fall within the jurisdiction of a constitutional body which is the Supreme Judicial Council or the Supreme Court of Pakistan itself."

Thanking the premier and the cabinet for reposing confidence in him to head the commission, the retired judge stated the terms of the reference for the inquiry are not "strictly" relevant to the subject under consideration.

Justice (retd) Jillani further added that the request made in the letter is for an "institutional consultation", with the terms of the mechanism suggested in the letter. He further added that the letter may not strictly fall within the parameters of Article 209 of the Constitution.

"For the afore-referred reasons, I recuse myself to head the commission and proceed with the inquiry.

Under the Terms of Reference (ToR) of the commission formed by the government, the inquiry commission will fully probe the allegations levelled by the IHC judges and decide whether these are true or otherwise.

It will investigate whether any personnel (of intelligence agencies) are directly responsible for interfering in judicial matters.

“The inquiry commission under its findings will recommend action against anyone from the intelligence agency, department, or government if found involved in such issue. It could, if found necessary during the course of its proceedings, probe other related issues as well.”

 

[ghazi52]

Aitzaz, LHCBA move SC for investigation into judges' letter​

Ahsan seeks dismissal from service of individuals implicated in 'unlawful acts', with no entitlement to benefits

Correspondent
April 02, 2024

Senior lawyer Chaudhry Aitzaz Ahsan and the Lahore High Court Bar Association (LHCBA) moved the Supreme Court (SC) on Tuesday seeking an investigation into the allegations of spy agencies' interference in judicial proceedings.

Ahsan urged the apex court to establish a three-member commission comprising sitting judges of the SC "to determine the officers and operatives of the ISI or other persons, if any, are or were involved in such unlawful acts and to report its finding to this [Supreme]Court”.

Last week, six judges of the IHC - Justices Mohsin Akhtar Kayani, Tariq Mehmood Jahangiri, Babar Sattar, Sardar Ejaz Ishaq Khan, Arbab Muhammad Tahir and Saman Rafat Imtiaz - penned a letter to the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC), expressing their concerns about the "interference" of the intelligence agencies in the affairs of the court.

He sought directives for the federal government to dismiss individuals implicated in “unlawful acts”, with no entitlement to retirement or other benefits from the national treasury. For those who have already retired, it specified the cessation of any retirement or associated benefits.

Ahsan urged the federal government to enact necessary regulations to fulfil the clauses of the petition.

His petition referred to Article 184(3) of the Constitution to question the matter of public importance in the six IHC judges letter case.

"Without prejudice to the provisions of Article 199, the Supreme Court shall if it considers that a question of public importance concerning the enforcement of any of the Fundamental Rights conferred by Chapter 1 of Part II is involved, have the power to make an order of the nature mentioned in the said Article," the petition read.

Referring to 184(3), the petition contended to investigate whether judges at different levels of the judiciary, including high courts and district/special courts, were being influenced by the ISI or the executive, as indicated in the judges' letter. It also contended to investigate whether there was an ongoing strategy within the executive, facilitated by intelligence agencies to intimidate sitting judges. Lastly, it questioned the existence of legal guidelines defining the ISI's jurisdiction and accountability

 

[Anza]

Is there a perfect time for that ? I mean why not already and get over with it.

Government will never break the country and or let anyone break the country. Now for your sake I can say, its in Government's own interest to rule Pakistan. No Pakistan, no Government, no Military- hopefully that satisfies the conspiracy theorists and zealous media journalists. In reality, Pakistan will keep rolling forward through Government and military, have faith.

Army’s image is in tatters government has history of corruption , economy is in shambles, terrorism is on the rise , inflation skyrocketing law and order crumbling Pakistan is failing in all fronts.
Bajwa has messed up Pakistan for good, go and ask people abroad what they think of Pakistan.
Pakistan has gone down the black hole and it’s not coming out any sooner..

 

[Goenitz]

Government will never break the country and or let anyone break the country. Now for your sake I can say, its in Government's own interest to rule Pakistan. No Pakistan, no Government, no Military- hopefully that satisfies the conspiracy theorists and zealous media journalists. In reality, Pakistan will keep rolling forward through Government and military, have faith.

We have individuals whose egos and interests are more important than the country. They loot, plunder and settle abroad. Pakistan, Islam and Pakistanis mean nothing to them.

God's promise dictates that only a just and fair society will prevail. Pakistan as a political system/country cannot continue on this path.

 

[Goenitz]

جہاں سے خط پوسٹ ہوتے ہیں وہاں کے سارے کیمرے خراب اور عجیب بات یہ ہے ۹ مئی کو کیمرے بھی خراب تھے
سوال: بیڈرومز میں لگائے جانے والے کیمرے تو بالکل صحیح کام کرتے ہیں وہ کیوں نہیں خراب ہوتے؟​