The ‘myth’ of Western-style democracy is losing its appeal even in the West (China Global Times editorial)

[Michael]

Socialism originally meant (and still means) an economic system in which private ownership of the means of production has been abolished.

If you don't call German ordoliberalism and France under dirigisme socialist, you shouldnt call China socialist either.

It is normal for foreigners to hold such views about China.

From a political science perspective, the fundamental distinction between capitalism and socialism lies in the difference between public and private ownership, as well as in the mechanisms of distribution.

China does not fully subscribe to an idealized—or radical—form of socialism, nor would such a system be suitable for us. At the same time, we do not fully endorse a form of capitalism that operates strictly according to the "law of the jungle." Therefore, China at this stage has achieved a model that combines the two, namely socialism with Chinese characteristics.

In China, the terms "within the system" (*tizhi nei*) and "outside the system" (*tizhi wai*) are frequently used to distinguish between two distinct social and economic models. "Within the system" essentially refers to state ownership—a model leaning toward socialism—while "outside the system" refers to the private sector, which leans toward capitalism. Both systems coexist within Chinese society.

The "within the system" economy does not prioritize the pursuit of market profit; rather, its core objectives are national stability and state security. In contrast, the "outside the system" economy aligns with the Western capitalist model, operating according to the principles of a pure market economy.

It is often difficult for foreigners to grasp the full scope of China’s "within the system" economy; they are generally more familiar with the "outside the system" sector. That said, these two models are increasingly interpenetrating and merging. Many state-affiliated enterprises have begun to experiment with operational methods characteristic of the private sector, while some private enterprises have, in turn, begun to integrate into the state-led system.

In short: the "within-the-system" economy serves as the foundation and backbone of the Chinese state, while the "outside-the-system" economy acts as its branches and leaves.

 

[Leclerc]

It is normal for foreigners to hold such views about China.

From a political science perspective, the fundamental distinction between capitalism and socialism lies in the difference between public and private ownership, as well as in the mechanisms of distribution.

China does not fully subscribe to an idealized—or radical—form of socialism, nor would such a system be suitable for us. At the same time, we do not fully endorse a form of capitalism that operates strictly according to the "law of the jungle." Therefore, China at this stage has achieved a model that combines the two, namely socialism with Chinese characteristics.

In China, the terms "within the system" (*tizhi nei*) and "outside the system" (*tizhi wai*) are frequently used to distinguish between two distinct social and economic models. "Within the system" essentially refers to state ownership—a model leaning toward socialism—while "outside the system" refers to the private sector, which leans toward capitalism. Both systems coexist within Chinese society.

The "within the system" economy does not prioritize the pursuit of market profit; rather, its core objectives are national stability and state security. In contrast, the "outside the system" economy aligns with the Western capitalist model, operating according to the principles of a pure market economy.

It is often difficult for foreigners to grasp the full scope of China’s "within the system" economy; they are generally more familiar with the "outside the system" sector. That said, these two models are increasingly interpenetrating and merging. Many state-affiliated enterprises have begun to experiment with operational methods characteristic of the private sector, while some private enterprises have, in turn, begun to integrate into the state-led system.

In short: the "within-the-system" economy serves as the foundation and backbone of the Chinese state, while the "outside-the-system" economy acts as its branches and leaves.

Ok but what are the criteria that make China socialist that aren't just "China calls itself socialist so it's socialist"?

If you give 100 people a description of the economic system of China on one hand and Germany, France or Sweden on the other, what are the objective, neutral criteria that would allow the vast majority of them to deduce that country 1 (China) is socialist and countries 2, 3 and 4 (France, Germany, Sweden) are not?

 

[Michael]

Ok but what are the criteria that make China socialist that aren't just "China calls itself socialist so it's socialist"?

If we use "public ownership versus private ownership" to distinguish between capitalism and socialism, then yes, China does indeed fall under socialism.

This is a very simple, typical classification.

However, it is clear that socialism in China differs from socialism as understood in the West—at least in terms of its outward manifestations. Consequently, many Westerners conclude that China does not qualify as socialist.

In the official terminology of modern China, we use neither "socialism" nor "capitalism"; instead, we define the system as "socialism with Chinese characteristics(中国特色的社会主义)."

 

[F-22Raptor]

I am waiting for the day China overcomes USA as the world's largest economy in NOMINAL GDP. Then we can say China has truly done it.

Like China overcame Japan's NOMINAL GDP in 2010.

That would be a great moment for China, probably going to happen before 2049 the 100 years founding of PRC. Or it could happen much sooner with Chinese curency RMB expected to appreciate significantly in the coming year.

Considering the US has nearly caught China in terms of real growth added, China surpassing US GDP is highly unlikely at this point. US GDP will reach $40T by 2031 and exceed $50T before 2040.

An that’s with the US having 3X Chinas PPP per capita. The reality is China has massively underperformed pre Covid economic expectations and the US has exceeded them.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Are you fxxking kiding me?

How many high-ranking have been removed? The central military committee only has two left, including Xi.

The system is different, still pretty bad.

So it is more "smart people...who just also happen to think like the guy in charge"