PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[WatchtowerWarrior4Ever]

Those things are geriatric planes that need to be put down asap. They serve no value in modern warfare...... time move past nostalgia.

Grounding the Mirages now would leave real gaps in strike and reconnaissance.

 

[Cipher212]

Those things are geriatric planes that need to be put down asap. They serve no value in modern warfare...... time move past nostalgia.

Mirages can still successfully strike Indian positions in a real war and come back alive. It can be done. The invincibility of modern radars and missiles is somewhat overstated. We are brainwashed by brochures and marketing material.

 

[Yasser76]

Grounding the Mirages now would leave real gaps in strike and reconnaissance.

Both statements can be true I think

 

[Ali_Baba]

Mirages can still successfully strike Indian positions in a real war and come back alive. It can be done. The invincibility of modern radars and missiles is somewhat overstated. We are brainwashed by brochures and marketing material.

It took 2 Mirages with 2 pilots + 2 WSO's to deliver one precision missile during the 2019 conflict with India and that still required "Line of sight control" putting at risk a Mirage + 2 officers at risk that had to fly a high mission profile guiding the missile to its target.

Now, a JF17 alone can deliver 2 precision cruise missiles on its own with just 1 pilot in a standoff manner...

The Mirages cannot generate the mission rate that the JF17 can, at the lower cost that a JF17 can...

Mirages are old, and will tire easily given the maintenance issues relative to their age. They need to be replaced with JF17s asap.

 

[Blain2]

It took 2 Mirages with 2 pilots + 2 WSO's to deliver one precision missile during the 2019 conflict with India and that still required "Line of sight control" putting at risk a Mirage + 2 officers at risk that had to fly a high mission profile guiding the missile to its target.

Now, a JF17 alone can deliver 2 precision cruise missiles on its own with just 1 pilot in a standoff manner...

The Mirages cannot generate the mission rate that the JF17 can, at the lower cost that a JF17 can...

Mirages are old, and will tire easily given the maintenance issues relative to their age. They need to be replaced with JF17s asap.

For the time being, Mirages have good high-speed, low altitude, strike capability and can operate effectively under the cover of a good escort.

I think it is a matter of time for them to be replaced. I don't think anyone's doubting that our newer multirole aircraft can do more than the Mirages but for time they are around, they have to be put to use.

This aside, how is any of this tied to the J-35 induction?

 

[White Privilege]

Hi,

The Mirages are not going nywhere soon.

All the 'informed rumors' indicate they have already been phased out from frontline combat duties. Nuclear delivery role, maybe, but in tactical attack role, Thunders provide much more at lesser fuel guzzling. Sidhu can keep a few for drag racing sure.....

 

[Blain2]

All the 'informed rumors' indicate they have already been phased out from frontline combat duties. Nuclear delivery role, maybe, but in tactical attack role, Thunders provide much more at lesser fuel guzzling. Sidhu can keep a few for drag racing sure.....

I don't think Pakistan has a "nuclear delivery role" for its manned squadrons any longer. Probably a last resort thing but the missile technology, range and payload has gone far beyond the need to strap a free-fall nuclear bomb to the belly of an aircraft and launching it towards a target for a toss-bombing mission.

A nuclear tipped ALCM is one option but I wonder about the efficacy of exposing manned aircraft for such missions when LACM, SLCMs can probably do this just as well.

 

[Ali_Baba]

For the time being, Mirages have good high-speed, low altitude, strike capability and can operate effectively under the cover of a good escort.

I think it is a matter of time for them to be replaced. I don't think anyone's doubting that our newer multirole aircraft can do more than the Mirages but for time they are around, they have to be put to use.

This aside, how is any of this tied to the J-35 induction?

To me, it would make sense to pause the J-10CE, go real big on the J-35AE and more JF17CE and sell off the 20 units of the J10CE to another operator - in my view of course. The J10CE is an odd ball relative to where we want the PAF to go and the J-35AE can do everything the J10CE can do, and alot lot more on top ... The PAF had to do an emergency buy of the J10CE to offset the Rafale, and I suspect PAF would have preferred to have waited for the J-35AE instead if it could.

 

[MastanKhan]

Those things are geriatric planes that need to be put down asap. They serve no value in modern warfare...... time move past nostalgia.

Hi,

Sonny boy---wait and see---.

 

[Pakistan First]

Mirages can still successfully strike Indian positions in a real war and come back alive. It can be done. The invincibility of modern radars and missiles is somewhat overstated. We are brainwashed by brochures and marketing material.

None of the mirages were used in 2025. Only J-10C, JF-17s and F-16s . Atleast that's what we heard & know. That says a lot about their utility. If Mirage is locked by enemy missile, then nothing can save it. No modern EW, active jamming / ECM to defend it. Atleast modern fighters (4.5 generation) have tools and better survivability chance. Mirage is flying in dark. 20+15 Mirage 5's had received Rose II/III upgrades in late 90s/early 2000s but that equipment is now ancient.

They are only in service as there are not enough new fighters coming to replace those. They are keeping required number of squadrons active.

Mirages are obsolete by every definition of modern warfare. And i think not all mirages will be replaced by JF-17s, J-10s. I think most of their replacements would be by UCAVs. heavier UCAVs like Akinci or even Shahpur-III (GIDS says it will be able to carry Rasoob CM-350 KMs).

If there are 50 mirages left (just an example). Then i believe only 20 manned aircrafts (J-10Cs or JF-17s) can potentially replace these along with 20 UCAVs (Akinci / S-III). Since mirages are left with only a single role, so it makes perfect since to replace these with strike role Unmanned systems. Also remember, Loss of a UCAV is no big deal but loss of a fighter jet and the pilot is a big blow!

 

[Signalian]

We need to consolidate on the existing platforms I.e. J+10CE first. Induct them in numbers and introduce the tactical attack role as well to finally get rid of the Mirages....

True that.
J-10 is just one squadron. It should be bumped to 4.

Adding J-35 as a new platform with a massive price albeit a jump in technology is something to ponder. For a lot less, PAF can increase its strike capability through long range drones and LMs, increase its AD assets and related technology against drone swarm attacks, and invest in EW platforms and tech.

 

[Cipher212]

None of the mirages were used in 2025. Only J-10C, JF-17s and F-16s . Atleast that's what we heard & know. That says a lot about their utility. If Mirage is locked by enemy missile, then nothing can save it. No modern EW, active jamming / ECM to defend it. Atleast modern fighters (4.5 generation) have tools and better survivability chance. Mirage is flying in dark. 20+15 Mirage 5's had received Rose II/III upgrades in late 90s/early 2000s but that equipment is now ancient.

They are only in service as there are not enough new fighters coming to replace those. They are keeping required number of squadrons active.

Mirages are obsolete by every definition of modern warfare. And i think not all mirages will be replaced by JF-17s, J-10s. I think most of their replacements would be by UCAVs. heavier UCAVs like Akinci or even Shahpur-III (GIDS says it will be able to carry Rasoob CM-350 KMs).

If there are 50 mirages left (just an example). Then i believe only 20 manned aircrafts (J-10Cs or JF-17s) can potentially replace these along with 20 UCAVs (Akinci / S-III). Since mirages are left with only a single role, so it makes perfect since to replace these with strike role Unmanned systems. Also remember, Loss of a UCAV is no big deal but loss of a fighter jet and the pilot is a big blow!

That was a 3-4 day skirmish where most of the action happened on the first night and in the final few hours.

In a real war with land being exchanged and possibly armies literally fighting on the border trying to defend/take territory, then everything will be put into fight. Your Mirages and PGs will be put into action. Crews will be rummaging around with old Fantans to see if any of them can be put back into service for one final mission.

Your mirages will be sent on high risk strike missions. PGs, K-8s with gunpods will be hunting drones.

Same logic as Iran sending Su-24s and F-5s to strike Camp Beuhring. A few of them actually made it (and at least one jet even returned?).

 

[Signalian]

Grounding the Mirages now would leave real gaps in strike and reconnaissance.

One would expect Mirages role to be taken over fully by JF-17 and then the gaps filled by J-10, however it would be a pity to see J-35 taking on all the roles of the retired and current aircrafts.

 

[studsmart]

is PAF in for J20C/B single seat version with ws15 or J35A with ws19?

 

[Signalian]

None of the mirages were used in 2025. Only J-10C, JF-17s and F-16s . Atleast that's what we heard & know. That says a lot about their utility. If Mirage is locked by enemy missile, then nothing can save it. No modern EW, active jamming / ECM to defend it. Atleast modern fighters (4.5 generation) have tools and better survivability chance. Mirage is flying in dark. 20+15 Mirage 5's had received Rose II/III upgrades in late 90s/early 2000s but that equipment is now ancient.

They are only in service as there are not enough new fighters coming to replace those. They are keeping required number of squadrons active.

Mirages are obsolete by every definition of modern warfare. And i think not all mirages will be replaced by JF-17s, J-10s. I think most of their replacements would be by UCAVs. heavier UCAVs like Akinci or even Shahpur-III (GIDS says it will be able to carry Rasoob CM-350 KMs).

If there are 50 mirages left (just an example). Then i believe only 20 manned aircrafts (J-10Cs or JF-17s) can potentially replace these along with 20 UCAVs (Akinci / S-III). Since mirages are left with only a single role, so it makes perfect since to replace these with strike role Unmanned systems. Also remember, Loss of a UCAV is no big deal but loss of a fighter jet and the pilot is a big blow!

You should have continued the post, explaining what J-35 brings for PAF.