JF-17 PFX program

[Deino]

I am not over looking the project and my assessment is based on publicly available information.

Das mag ja sein, aber die Frage ist, wer sind diese angeblichen Analysten die die öffentlichen Aussagen getroffen haben! Zumindest @Quwa aka Bilal Khan never stated these exaggerated claims.

 

[Deino]

Das mag ja sein, aber die Frage ist, wer sind diese angeblichen Analysten die die öffentlichen Aussagen getroffen haben! Zumindest @Quwa aka Bilal Khan never stated these exaggerated claims.

Sorry, forgot the translation!

That may well be the case, but the question is: who are these so-called analysts who have made these public statements? At the very least, @Quwa, aka Bilal Khan, never made these exaggerated claims.

 

[mythbuster]

No one has the inside info including Quwa....all you need is common sense to figure out that JF 17 with it's present airframe and engine has no room for any substantial improvement...new airframe is a must for JF 17.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Sorry, forgot the translation!

That may well be the case, but the question is: who are these so-called analysts who have made these public statements? At the very least, @Quwa, aka Bilal Khan, never made these exaggerated claims.

Hey, an Ex. PAF Air Commodore (equivalent to a one-star general), Khalid Chishti, who regularly appears on national TV, and very likely functions as an informal spokesperson for PAF, has confirmed that PFX is a completely different platform, and its R&D is 'well underway.' I think it is safe to conclude that such a program does exist.

However, I am sympathetic to your skepticism. The operational requirement for such an aircraft is far from obvious, and we certainly lack the know-how and industrial capacity needed to develop such a program. However, there is substantial know-how and industrial capacity dispersed among various state-run organizations. For example, PAC and NESCOM collectively have substantial airframe design and manufacturing capacity. PAC and NRTC have significant avionics development and manufacturing capabilities. NESCOM has, from what I understand, the capacity to design and manufacture at least basic flight control systems (missiles and UAVs like the Shahpar series, including the larger Shahpar 3). It could be that this program's goal is to ultimately manufacture a low(ish) observable 4.5 generation multirole fighter as a technology demonstrator by bringing together and building on various design and manufacturing capacity currently scattered across state-run military industry. If and when this is accomplished, Pakistan can invite its allies, including KSA, Turkey, Qatar, and Indonesia, to collaborate on a much more mature next-generation fighter. At that point, these countries ought to be able to collectively fund and manufacture such a platform should their requirements align.

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

Sorry, forgot the translation!

That may well be the case, but the question is: who are these so-called analysts who have made these public statements? At the very least, @Quwa, aka Bilal Khan, never made these exaggerated claims.

Let’s ask him about PFX project. Let’s get his input.

I was able to find my post from December 2025.

“Several retired Air Force officers have even confirmed that PFX has a dedicated team and a project lead actively working on the design phase of it.

1. Air Commodore (Retd.) Khalid Chishti’s key message is:

PFX is real, structured, staffed, and already in the design phase but it is a long‑term, step‑by‑step program, not a quick jump to a 5th‑gen jet.

2. Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu

Venue: PAF events, interviews, PAC briefings
Statements:

• PFX is part of PAF’s “Next Generation Air Combat System (NGACS)” roadmap.
• Pakistan is pursuing two tracks:• PFX‑Alpha (JF‑17 evolution)
• PFX (new fighter) for the 2030s

• Emphasized indigenization, sovereignty, and reduced dependence on foreign suppliers.
• Confirmed that PFX is not a 5th‑gen stealth fighter, but a 4.5+ gen platform.

3. Air Vice Marshal (Retd.) Shahid Latif

Venue: TV interviews, defense panels
Statements:

• PFX is the logical continuation of the JF‑17 program.
• Pakistan aims to increase its design authority in the next fighter.
• Confirmed that PFX will be twin‑engine and larger than JF‑17.
• Stated that PFX is meant to replace F‑16s in the long term.

4. Air Commodore (Retd.) Kaiser Tufail

Venue: Articles, seminars, interviews
Statements:

• PFX is a 4.5‑generation fighter, not a stealth aircraft.
• The biggest bottleneck is engine selection.
• Pakistan must build industrial capability first, then pursue advanced fighters.
• PFX is meant to give PAF a heavier, long range platform.

5. Air Commodore (Retd.) Jamal Hussain

Venue: Defense commentary, think‑tank discussions
Statements:

• PFX is a multi‑phase program, not a single aircraft.
• PFX‑Alpha is the first experimental step.
• The twin engine PFX will require deep Chinese partnership.
• PFX is designed to complement, not replace, J‑10C and JF‑17.

6. PAC Kamra Leadership (Various Officials)

Venue: IDEAS 2024, PAC briefings
Statements:

• Confirmed the twin engine PFX concept displayed at IDEAS.
• Stated that PFX development is targeted for completion before 2030, with service entry in the 2030s.
• Emphasized local manufacturing, avionics development, and EW sovereignty.
• Confirmed that PFX‑Alpha (JF‑17 Block 4) is already in development.

7. PAF Spokespersons (Official Statements)

Venue: Media briefings
Statements:

• PFX is part of PAF’s future force structure.
• It will feature:• AESA radar
• Advanced EW
• Long‑range weapons
• Stealth shaping
• It is intended to be a 4.5‑generation fighter”

 

[White Privilege]

In the economic atmosphere where even more J-10CEs are delayed, fifth gen seems ever more distant, and entire warfare changing towards drones and LMs, it is not wise to put high hopes on a fighter that is still on the drawing board.....

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

In the economic atmosphere where even more J-10CEs are delayed, fifth gen seems ever more distant, and entire warfare changing towards drones and LMs, it is not wise to put high hopes on a fighter that is still on the drawing board.....

Uncle Sam and even Chinese are willing to but natural resources from KPK and soon we will have honey and Milk river will be flowing in Pakistan.

On the serious note, we might wait for KAAN to mature since India has no plan for stealth fighter, at least not in near future.

 

[maxpane]

Turkiye is building new jet for navy and its bigger than hurjet. May be Pak collaborate with turkiye to build a pfx with turkiye support both countries need a true 4.5 gen fighter jet .

 

[Pakistan First]

Let’s ask him about PFX project. Let’s get his input.

I was able to find my post from December 2025.

“Several retired Air Force officers have even confirmed that PFX has a dedicated team and a project lead actively working on the design phase of it.

1. Air Commodore (Retd.) Khalid Chishti’s key message is:

PFX is real, structured, staffed, and already in the design phase but it is a long‑term, step‑by‑step program, not a quick jump to a 5th‑gen jet.

2. Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu

Venue: PAF events, interviews, PAC briefings
Statements:

• PFX is part of PAF’s “Next Generation Air Combat System (NGACS)” roadmap.
• Pakistan is pursuing two tracks:• PFX‑Alpha (JF‑17 evolution)
• PFX (new fighter) for the 2030s

• Emphasized indigenization, sovereignty, and reduced dependence on foreign suppliers.
• Confirmed that PFX is not a 5th‑gen stealth fighter, but a 4.5+ gen platform.

3. Air Vice Marshal (Retd.) Shahid Latif

Venue: TV interviews, defense panels
Statements:

• PFX is the logical continuation of the JF‑17 program.
• Pakistan aims to increase its design authority in the next fighter.
• Confirmed that PFX will be twin‑engine and larger than JF‑17.
• Stated that PFX is meant to replace F‑16s in the long term.

4. Air Commodore (Retd.) Kaiser Tufail

Venue: Articles, seminars, interviews
Statements:

• PFX is a 4.5‑generation fighter, not a stealth aircraft.
• The biggest bottleneck is engine selection.
• Pakistan must build industrial capability first, then pursue advanced fighters.
• PFX is meant to give PAF a heavier, long range platform.

5. Air Commodore (Retd.) Jamal Hussain

Venue: Defense commentary, think‑tank discussions
Statements:

• PFX is a multi‑phase program, not a single aircraft.
• PFX‑Alpha is the first experimental step.
• The twin engine PFX will require deep Chinese partnership.
• PFX is designed to complement, not replace, J‑10C and JF‑17.

6. PAC Kamra Leadership (Various Officials)

Venue: IDEAS 2024, PAC briefings
Statements:

• Confirmed the twin engine PFX concept displayed at IDEAS.
• Stated that PFX development is targeted for completion before 2030, with service entry in the 2030s.
• Emphasized local manufacturing, avionics development, and EW sovereignty.
• Confirmed that PFX‑Alpha (JF‑17 Block 4) is already in development.

7. PAF Spokespersons (Official Statements)

Venue: Media briefings
Statements:

• PFX is part of PAF’s future force structure.
• It will feature:• AESA radar
• Advanced EW
• Long‑range weapons
• Stealth shaping
• It is intended to be a 4.5‑generation fighter”

Don't take the talks of retired ones too seriously.

Can you share the Air Chief video or statement link saying PAF is pursuing
PFX‑Alpha (JF‑17 evolution), PFX (new fighter) for the 2030s ?

 

[Ali_Baba]

No one has the inside info including Quwa....all you need is common sense to figure out that JF 17 with it's present airframe and engine has no room for any substantial improvement...new airframe is a must for JF 17.

And if we are resorting to common sense, then we must understand that Pakistan does not have the people, infrastructure, knowledge or experience or appropriate trained people to make any changes to the JF17 airframe or associated FBW systems and it is a stretch to think Pakistan can do so, “regardless of need”….

 

[mythbuster]

And if we are resorting to common sense, then we must understand that Pakistan does not have the people, infrastructure, knowledge or experience or appropriate trained people to make any changes to the JF17 airframe or associated FBW systems and it is a stretch to think Pakistan can do so, “regardless of need”….

You know nothing sir , just regurgitating cliché about the lack of industrial capacity....our defence industrial complex is forging ahead at breakneck speed.

 

[Ali_Baba]

You know nothing sir , just regurgitating cliché about the lack of industrial capacity....our defence industrial complex is forging ahead at breakneck speed.

I know enough that a country that has not designed, developed a single plane in any aviation category of any type be it a fixed-wing type of either jet or rotary, or a glider or an airliner or any fast jet will also not have the ability to do anything on a demanding fighter jet design that is meant to fly at the edge of the performance envelope ... Period.

Anyone who thinks Pakistan can, has obviously no foundation in engineering logic, or engineering delivery of anything.

 

[Hussain]

I know enough that a country that has not designed, developed a single plane in any aviation category of fixed-wing of any type of plane type of either jet or rotary, even a glider or an airliner or any jet will not have the ability to do anything on a demanding fighter jet design... Period.

So since we've never done it, we can never do it?
I thought you were a logical guy...

Anyone who thinks Pakistan can, has obviously no foundation in engineering logic, or engineering delivery of anything.

You seemed to be pushing very hard for someone to spill the beans, do continue......

 

[Ali_Baba]

So since we've never done it, we can never do it?
I thought you were a logical guy...

No.

Because It is something you build into, by designing, validating, testing and building smaller prop planes, trainers, before progressing to jets, and then finally fast military jets.. The Indians tried to do it in reverse as you suggest that Pakistan is attempting to do so and it has become a shit show for India.

Türkiye has demonstrated how to do it by building foundation institutions, foundation projects and using that to build the people, the institutions and capability with ever increasing complexity in their projects. Look at Turkish Aerospace Industries and how it has done the Hurkus, Hurjet projects, its stealth UAV and drones, its helicopters then finally its Kaan project. Its been a journey of designing and delivering platforms. Turkish Aerospace Industries has thousands of trained, experienced aerospace engineers and engineering leaders it can deploy to new projects.

It is a journey and you use the journey to build people, institutions and infrastructure that allows you to do the larger and more complex projects over time.. You can't wake up one day, and say hey - we never done anything before like but don't worry - we "got this".....

Somehow Pakistan is going to mysteriously make the JF17 airframe bigger to add new weapons and hardpoints, change to a new more powerful engine (or 2 as some here seem to suggest), somehow change the FBW to accommodate all the impact of all of those changes even though Pakistan has never worked on an unstable FBW before. Then somehow Pakistan will know how to test, validate each of the changes individually and then as a whole and somehow..

A fighter jet is not like a richshaw/tuk-tuk you can change, apply some spit and polish and say, it is "done" as some here seem to suggest.

Where is the Lockheed Martin or Northrop Grrumman type of institution in Pakistan that can do this??? What track record does this institution in Pakistan have ??? How many trained, aerospace experience engineers and engineering leaders has Pakistan developed and maintained that it can do Pakistani origin design and development in Pakistan? Where is the critical mass of these aerospace engineers ?

The idea that Pakistan can do airframe changes for JF17 to make the "PFX", is absolute horseshit - period. The special delusional kind of horseshit - not just the plain vanilla kind either. The idea that Pakistan can do a greenfield design of a new larger platform in Pakistan is an even bigger mound of delusional horse-shit.