HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[fulcrum]

It's unlikely to cross 400
Total LCA numbers being discussed hover between 324-400 for IAF and another 12-18 Tejas N Trainers for the Navy

The lower end ie 324 units actually indicate that IAF might retire it's 16 IOC Tejas MK1 early, ie after they get sufficient number of Mk1A fighters in service.

This is because , Their is not much upgrades we can apply to these airframes due to design restrictions
And they are about at par with our Mirage 2000 Dash5 as far as tech is concerned
Considering the fact that Mirage 2000 are set for retirement around 2035

So it's quite possible that IAF will phase out 16 Tejas IOC aircrafts after that, or possibly sell them to a friendly country like Philippines , Sri Lanka or Bangladesh

324 -400, you guys are talking about Tejas mk1a & mk2 combined right.

 

[Archie]

324 -400, you guys are talking about Tejas mk1a & mk2 combined right.

Actually it's Mk1 + MK1A + MK2 + Twin seat Tejas Trainers combined

Currently we have inducted
32 Mk1 + 8 Trainers

73 Mk1A + 10 Trainers are on order With the first Tejas MK1A making it's inaugural flight on 31st March 2024 , before getting delivered this month.

Indian Government has also approved 97 additional Tejas Mk1A Which will be delivered after the 2nd batch
These aircrafts will have some minor updates over previous 83 aircrafts, so some actually classify them as Mk1B

Then their is Tejas Mk2
IAF Has committed to purchase 120 of these to replace it's Mirage 2000v5 and Mig29UPG
Their order can rise to 200 if Indian Government cancels any further purchase of Rafales

Hence the number 324 - 400

 

[harpy1]

Tejas is god send project for India
Main reason the start of self sufficiency in air power which was much needed for a major military power like India way over due.

My concern is this around mark two in particular
The development time and then the speed at which 120 units are delivered will be too late..

Imo we will get the mark1a first batch in by 2030

But second batch post 2030 running until 2035.. not sure it's too light weight anyway we need bigger Tejas

We need medium weight fighters now
Mark two will not fly until 2026 and induction will not start until 2032
Which means 120 by 2040

I do not believe we can deliver quicker than this no matter how hard hal DRDO age Indian military works

Just being realistic
And if I am correct

Those 120 mark 1a and 120 mark 2
Alongside 140 upgraded super flankers will be the sharp end of our air power

My worry is Pakistan by 2040 by hook or crook will be fielding both J35 and j10
And china over six hundred fifth gen fighters of two types j20 two blocks and J35

I think we need more than Tejas

And no Amca is not in service in 2035

 

[Faceless]

It's unlikely to cross 400
Total LCA numbers being discussed hover between 324-400 for IAF and another 12-18 Tejas N Trainers for the Navy

The lower end ie 324 units actually indicate that IAF might retire it's 16 IOC Tejas MK1 early, ie after they get sufficient number of Mk1A fighters in service.

This is because , Their is not much upgrades we can apply to these airframes due to design restrictions
And they are about at par with our Mirage 2000 Dash5 as far as tech is concerned
Considering the fact that Mirage 2000 are set for retirement around 2035

So it's quite possible that IAF will phase out 16 Tejas IOC aircrafts after that, or possibly sell them to a friendly country like Philippines , Sri Lanka or Bangladesh

Honestly I am still struggling to justify the additional 97 MK1A orders

- Are that many MK1A even needed, where are we even going to use that many of them (i don't think PAF is going to order any more JF 17s)
- I fear It will most probably eat away the orders of Tejas MK2
- Will it even stay relevant in the future given all of it's shortcomings due to it being a light fighter and being at the end of its upgrade cycle
- Will the future IAF be content with the such a big fleet of short legged Tejas MK1A vis-a-vis mk2, I fear its fate may end up the same as Marut

IMO Only 57 More MK1A would have sufficed.

 

[Pataliputra]

Honestly I am still struggling to justify the additional 97 MK1A orders

- Are that many MK1A even needed, where are we even going to use that many of them (i don't think PAF is going to order any more JF 17s)
- I fear It will most probably eat away the orders of Tejas MK2
- Will it even stay relevant in the future given all of it's shortcomings due to it being a light fighter and being at the end of its upgrade cycle
- Will the future IAF be content with the such a big fleet of short legged Tejas MK1A vis-a-vis mk2, I fear its fate may end up the same as Marut

IMO Only 57 More MK1A would have sufficed.

IAF inducted 874 MiG-21s, which was a light fighter and backbone of IAF.

 

[fulcrum]

Honestly I am still struggling to justify the additional 97 MK1A orders

- Are that many MK1A even needed, where are we even going to use that many of them (i don't think PAF is going to order any more JF 17s)
- I fear It will most probably eat away the orders of Tejas MK2
- Will it even stay relevant in the future given all of it's shortcomings due to it being a light fighter and being at the end of its upgrade cycle
- Will the future IAF be content with the such a big fleet of short legged Tejas MK1A vis-a-vis mk2, I fear its fate may end up the same as Marut

IMO Only 57 More MK1A would have sufficed.

Iaf has always kept light category aircrafts in significant numbers, gnat, mig21, HF73..
They definetely don't rely on this aircraft for all needs.. IAFs backbone will be super su30, Tejas mk2, then amca.

 

[fulcrum]

Indian Government has also approved 97 additional Tejas Mk1A Which will be delivered after the 2nd batch
These aircrafts will have some minor updates over previous 83 aircrafts, so some actually classify them as Mk1B

Potential exists in it, sensor fusion radar & RWR can be done. A single screen can be used instead of 3 different. Less pilot workload, AI ..
There is no scope in EW. It has already gotten the best it can accomodate whole GaN based EW is there.
I have seen some render designs on dfi of larger widder spine to level of canopy which will then accomodate bigger fuel tank..
It's weight too can be reduced as Tejas was supposed to weight 5800kg. It weights 6560kg.. they can remove balast. They had not removed whole balast in mk1A..
This are the 3 key areas where they can work.

 

[Pataliputra]

Iaf has always kept light category aircrafts in significant numbers, gnat, mig21, HF73..
They definetely don't rely on this aircraft for all needs.. IAFs backbone will be super su30, Tejas mk2, then amca.

Currently, the only fighter jets available to IAF equipped with GaN AESA Radar and state-of-the-art avionics are the Rafales and Tejas MK1A. While the Su-30MKI can undergo upgrades with modern avionics, having a fighter jet that comes with advanced avionics pre-installed represents a distinct advantage.

 

[fulcrum]

Currently, the only fighter jets available to IAF equipped with GaN AESA Radar and state-of-the-art avionics are the Rafales and Tejas MK1A. While the Su-30MKI can undergo upgrades with modern avionics, having a fighter jet that comes with advanced avionics pre-installed represents a distinct advantage.

Wrong Rafale doesn't have GaN aesa..it has GaAs based radar.
Some Jaguars have been upgraded with elm2052 which is a aesa radar..
Tejas hasn't got the GaN aesa yet because of delay. It's going on 41st Tejas. 40 units will have elm 2052 AESA..
Going for GaN & increased trms was the reason behind this delay.. given the GaN ecosystem in india it wouldn't have been worth it to not to go for GaN..

 

[Archie]

Honestly I am still struggling to justify the additional 97 MK1A orders

- Are that many MK1A even needed, where are we even going to use that many of them (i don't think PAF is going to order any more JF 17s)
- I fear It will most probably eat away the orders of Tejas MK2
- Will it even stay relevant in the future given all of it's shortcomings due to it being a light fighter and being at the end of its upgrade cycle
- Will the future IAF be content with the such a big fleet of short legged Tejas MK1A vis-a-vis mk2, I fear its fate may end up the same as Marut

IMO Only 57 More MK1A would have sufficed.

The order for 97 additional MK1A was made for the sole reason that our fleet was getting old and Government is drawing its feet on the MRFA deal.

These 97 Tejas will allow us to begin retiring Jaguars starting 2028, without having adverse impact on squadron strength.

IAF wants 114 additional MRFA category fighter,
But the price is too high and in some case exceeds the price of 5th Gen fighter aircrafts.

My prediction is that we will place a second order for 36-54 Rafales along with Navy's Purchase of 26 Rafale M/B

And that will be the end of MRCA/MRFA saga

 

[Pataliputra]

Wrong Rafale doesn't have GaN aesa..it has GaAs based radar.
Some Jaguars have been upgraded with elm2052 which is a aesa radar..
Tejas hasn't got the GaN aesa yet because of delay. It's going on 41st Tejas. 40 units will have elm 2052 AESA..
Going for GaN & increased trms was the reason behind this delay.. given the GaN ecosystem in india it wouldn't have been worth it to not to go for GaN..

The key difference lies in the fact that Tejas MK1A is designed with state-of-the-art avionics from the outset, while the Su-30MKI requires upgrades as it was not initially equipped with advanced avionics. Upgrading an existing aircraft like the Su-30MKI to incorporate advanced avionics may pose certain limitations compared to the Tejas MK1A, which was specifically designed to accommodate state-of-the-art avionics from its inception.

 

[harpy1]

I would not buy more mark1a

Throw eve thing at Mark two and Amca only. Leave mark1a at 83

Spend ten billion on stop gap rafale F5 with drones

Get 120 mark two

Then go straight to Amca

Go big in super mki

By 2040 have in service

40 Amca one
140 super mki
80 Rafale F3//F5
120 mark 2 Tejas
120 mark1a Tejas /MK1
100 ,non upgraded mki ready for phase out in 2040

That's realistic in numbers and timescales

 

[fulcrum]

I would not buy more mark1a

Throw eve thing at Mark two and Amca only. Leave mark1a at 83

Spend ten billion on stop gap rafale F5 with drones

Get 120 mark two

Then go straight to Amca

Go big in super mki

By 2040 have in service

40 Amca one
140 super mki
80 Rafale F3//F5
120 mark 2 Tejas
120 mark1a Tejas /MK1
100 ,non upgraded mki ready for phase out in 2040

That's realistic in numbers and timescales

I think you don't know that mk2 is delayed..
Secondly the Tejas mk1A has excellent EW..
It is better than jaguar, mig21s, right now.
It falls behind mirages only in endurance that's it otherwise it is better in all other aspect..
So it is definetely a great choice to have them in large numbers.. it's range is as much jaguar when it is operated at high altitude bases... The capability addition with this cheap aircraft is alot. It is 2/3rd in cost compared to gripen..
And wait who will give you 40 amca 140 super Sukhoi upgraded Tejas mk2 these things are gonna take alot of time till then all this Tejas will be delivered. Mk2 is said to takeoff in 2027..
according to the project director
first prototype of amca will rolled out in 3 years of approval of funding ccs has given clearance but funds are not transferred yet..
STill they have timeline that in September 2027 first prototype will be rolled out which will takeoff in December 2028.
by 2031-32 it's mass production will began..
this is there timeline we all know delay of atleast 3 years will happen..
whereas you will start receiving 24 Tejas per year by the 2032 you are anyways not getting amca... And rafale purchase is neither happening.. even if we order they will take some time to began production facility which has only 20 per year manufacturering capacity. It will take 6-7 years to deliver all of them..

 

[fulcrum]

Some great articles about Tejas mk1a

India's Tejas vs Pakistan's JF-17 in low-cost fighter showdown - Asia Times

The recent test flight of India’s homemade Tejas Mk 1A light combat fighter jet pits it directly against Pakistan's JF-17, in a heated subcontinent

asiatimes.com

Much Is Riding On India’s Upgraded Tejas Light Fighter After Its First Flight

Issues with the original Tejas have led to a major upgrade less than a decade after the fighter originally entered limited service.

www.twz.com

 

[GatlingGun]

..
And wait who will give you 40 amca 140 super Sukhoi upgraded Tejas mk2 these things are gonna take alot of time till then all this Tejas will be delivered. Mk2 is said to takeoff in 2027..

He is talking about 2040.

Mk2 prototype assembly is already on speed mode , and it will roll out and take off in 2025 itself as per latest interview given by ADA director.