HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[Bhojpuranchali]

Post in thread 'HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions' https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/hal-lca-tejas-updates-news-discussions.164/post-168119
Post in thread 'HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions' https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/hal-lca-tejas-updates-news-discussions.164/post-168123

The upgrades are expected to take 5-6 years, and after 20 years, the Su-30MKIs will begin to retire. While the Su-30MKI is a capable platform, it no longer represents the newest cutting-edge technology, unlike the Tejas MK1A, Rafales, or J10C. The focus of IAF should be on acquiring substantial numbers of Tejas MK1A and MK2. If the MK2 experiences delays, IAF may be compelled to purchase additional Tejas MK1A units.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

AMCA should be ready to replace the Su-30MKI within the next 10 years to prevent it from becoming another MiG-21 in IAF.
Mirage-2000 should also be replaced with Tejas MK2 as early as possible

 

[Yasser76]

Beyond 2030, if IAF are inducting and HAL is making 4/4.5 gen aircraft something has gone very wrong. Plans that look good on paper now will be obsolete in 10 years.

The generational lag in Tejas development means that it's main MK1A version will start coming of the factory line when one of it's main rivals (JF-17 Block III and J-10C) will come to the end of their production lives. China and Pakistan will move on to purely 5th gen, in case of China, Europe and US, possibly 6th gen.

10 years from now IAF may well induct first new Tejas MKII sqd with much fanfare, trust me when I say China will have 6th gen by then, PAF will have either J-31/KAAN/PFX or some mixture f all three

With Tejas MK1A and MK2 you will have capable planes that will not be able to see, locate or target many of their enemies, and in many cases be outranged by missiles.

As with Arjun and Rustom drone, India is making a decent product a generation too late. No shame in that, India is still learning and should credit it's engineers and designers, but it's air force and pilots require state of the art.

Three painful steps can remedy this situation

1) Dump Tejas MK2, expediate AMCA. Literally put all your aviation resources into this
2) Dump Russia, lose S-400, promise whatever you need to with the US and buy 120 F-35
3) Like Japan that has a very robust aviation and technology base, go for a joint 6th gen project with Europe (either the Franco/German project or the British/Swedish/Jap project)

All of the above will massively benefit Indian industry and learning. If you do not do this, expect to face the very best Chinese and possibly European 5th/6th gen tech in the hands of your enemies in 10-15 years while you are flying Tejas and SU-30s....

 

[Joe Shearer]

Beyond 2030, if IAF are inducting and HAL is making 4/4.5 gen aircraft something has gone very wrong. Plans that look good on paper now will be obsolete in 10 years.

The generational lag in Tejas development means that it's main MK1A version will start coming of the factory line when one of it's main rivals (JF-17 Block III and J-10C) will come to the end of their production lives. China and Pakistan will move on to purely 5th gen, in case of China, Europe and US, possibly 6th gen.

10 years from now IAF may well induct first new Tejas MKII sqd with much fanfare, trust me when I say China will have 6th gen by then, PAF will have either J-31/KAAN/PFX or some mixture f all three

With Tejas MK1A and MK2 you will have capable planes that will not be able to see, locate or target many of their enemies, and in many cases be outranged by missiles.

As with Arjun and Rustom drone, India is making a decent product a generation too late. No shame in that, India is still learning and should credit it's engineers and designers, but it's air force and pilots require state of the art.

Three painful steps can remedy this situation

1) Dump Tejas MK2, expediate AMCA. Literally put all your aviation resources into this
2) Dump Russia, lose S-400, promise whatever you need to with the US and buy 120 F-35
3) Like Japan that has a very robust aviation and technology base, go for a joint 6th gen project with Europe (either the Franco/German project or the British/Swedish/Jap project)

All of the above will massively benefit Indian industry and learning. If you do not do this, expect to face the very best Chinese and possibly European 5th/6th gen tech in the hands of your enemies in 10-15 years while you are flying Tejas and SU-30s....

Love this feet on the ground sensible post. Wish I was home with access to a system to respond properly. Can't do justice on a mobile handset, screen and keyboard.
Thanks, champ.

 

[DDG-80]

Beyond 2030, if IAF are inducting and HAL is making 4/4.5 gen aircraft something has gone very wrong. Plans that look good on paper now will be obsolete in 10 years.

The generational lag in Tejas development means that it's main MK1A version will start coming of the factory line when one of it's main rivals (JF-17 Block III and J-10C) will come to the end of their production lives. China and Pakistan will move on to purely 5th gen, in case of China, Europe and US, possibly 6th gen.

10 years from now IAF may well induct first new Tejas MKII sqd with much fanfare, trust me when I say China will have 6th gen by then, PAF will have either J-31/KAAN/PFX or some mixture f all three

With Tejas MK1A and MK2 you will have capable planes that will not be able to see, locate or target many of their enemies, and in many cases be outranged by missiles.

As with Arjun and Rustom drone, India is making a decent product a generation too late. No shame in that, India is still learning and should credit it's engineers and designers, but it's air force and pilots require state of the art.

Three painful steps can remedy this situation

1) Dump Tejas MK2, expediate AMCA. Literally put all your aviation resources into this
2) Dump Russia, lose S-400, promise whatever you need to with the US and buy 120 F-35
3) Like Japan that has a very robust aviation and technology base, go for a joint 6th gen project with Europe (either the Franco/German project or the British/Swedish/Jap project)

All of the above will massively benefit Indian industry and learning. If you do not do this, expect to face the very best Chinese and possibly European 5th/6th gen tech in the hands of your enemies in 10-15 years while you are flying Tejas and SU-30s....

 

[kaku]

Beyond 2030, if IAF are inducting and HAL is making 4/4.5 gen aircraft something has gone very wrong. Plans that look good on paper now will be obsolete in 10 years.

The generational lag in Tejas development means that it's main MK1A version will start coming of the factory line when one of it's main rivals (JF-17 Block III and J-10C) will come to the end of their production lives. China and Pakistan will move on to purely 5th gen, in case of China, Europe and US, possibly 6th gen.

10 years from now IAF may well induct first new Tejas MKII sqd with much fanfare, trust me when I say China will have 6th gen by then, PAF will have either J-31/KAAN/PFX or some mixture f all three

With Tejas MK1A and MK2 you will have capable planes that will not be able to see, locate or target many of their enemies, and in many cases be outranged by missiles.

As with Arjun and Rustom drone, India is making a decent product a generation too late. No shame in that, India is still learning and should credit it's engineers and designers, but it's air force and pilots require state of the art.

Three painful steps can remedy this situation

1) Dump Tejas MK2, expediate AMCA. Literally put all your aviation resources into this
2) Dump Russia, lose S-400, promise whatever you need to with the US and buy 120 F-35
3) Like Japan that has a very robust aviation and technology base, go for a joint 6th gen project with Europe (either the Franco/German project or the British/Swedish/Jap project)

All of the above will massively benefit Indian industry and learning. If you do not do this, expect to face the very best Chinese and possibly European 5th/6th gen tech in the hands of your enemies in 10-15 years while you are flying Tejas and SU-30s....

Such a bad analysis. Best line was, China and Pak move on to purely 5th gen. Dreams.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Such a bad analysis. Best line was, China and Pak move on to purely 5th gen. Dreams.

China could move to pure 5th gen Fighter force but it can't it take lots of resources, China isn't stupid to go pure 5th gen Fighter Jets force, even USA don't have pure 5th gen Fighter Jet force and forget about Pakistan it will induct few 5th gen jets first and then gradually increase their numbers if our economy allows, pure 5th gen jet force is not happening in our lifetime (I mean PAF is not going have all 5th gen jets in its inventory in our lifetime)

 

[vkdindian]

China could move to pure 5th gen Fighter force but it can't it take lots of resources, China isn't stupid to go pure 5th gen Fighter Jets force, even USA don't have pure 5th gen Fighter Jet force

Very true.

No sensible nation would go purely 5th or 6th gen. They have issues of their own. Major ones are cost and maintainability.
4.5 gen in a good mix of force packaging and support from AWACS etc can do very good.

Tejas MKII, would gain immensely from MK IA. It wouldn’t be a work from scratch as was the case with the first iteration.

The major challenge for MK II are likely to be development of flight dynamics and laws due to canards which is completely new aspect for the developers.

@MirageBlue, can you throw some light on the likely challenges (major ones) for MK II?

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

Beyond 2030, if IAF are inducting and HAL is making 4/4.5 gen aircraft something has gone very wrong. Plans that look good on paper now will be obsolete in 10 years.

The generational lag in Tejas development means that it's main MK1A version will start coming of the factory line when one of it's main rivals (JF-17 Block III and J-10C) will come to the end of their production lives. China and Pakistan will move on to purely 5th gen, in case of China, Europe and US, possibly 6th gen.

10 years from now IAF may well induct first new Tejas MKII sqd with much fanfare, trust me when I say China will have 6th gen by then, PAF will have either J-31/KAAN/PFX or some mixture f all three

With Tejas MK1A and MK2 you will have capable planes that will not be able to see, locate or target many of their enemies, and in many cases be outranged by missiles.

As with Arjun and Rustom drone, India is making a decent product a generation too late. No shame in that, India is still learning and should credit it's engineers and designers, but it's air force and pilots require state of the art.

Three painful steps can remedy this situation

1) Dump Tejas MK2, expediate AMCA. Literally put all your aviation resources into this
2) Dump Russia, lose S-400, promise whatever you need to with the US and buy 120 F-35
3) Like Japan that has a very robust aviation and technology base, go for a joint 6th gen project with Europe (either the Franco/German project or the British/Swedish/Jap project)

All of the above will massively benefit Indian industry and learning. If you do not do this, expect to face the very best Chinese and possibly European 5th/6th gen tech in the hands of your enemies in 10-15 years while you are flying Tejas and SU-30s....

If fourth-generation jets will be obsolete by 2030, why are the USA, Sweden, France and Europe still producing new blocks of F-16, Gripen, Rafales, and Eurofighter ?
And Despite potential delays, Tejas MK2 will enter production before the MRFA deal is finalized.

 

[harpy1]

Yasser lives in dream world

Pakistan with fifth generation fleet
He does not realise they will be fielding mostly thunders and legacy mlu f16until way past 2040
And at best a down graded cheap j31 in two squadrons
Yes few more j10 c may.come but the finance issue will always persist

The works is moving to missiles and drones as preferred first strike options not manned fighters

Fifth generation fighters will be important but not in the the huge no's because it's simply not financially feasible

Even in 2040! 70% of the combats fleets will still be mid 4th generation fighters

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

Fifth-generation jets might become less effective in the coming decades due to advancements in radar technology and network-centric warfare. Modern systems such as drones, surface-to-air missiles, advanced radars, infrared sensors, and other communication technologies have become too sophisticated to be deceived by mere stealth geometry, which is a key feature of fifth-generation fighter jets. Moreover, fourth-generation jets have the advantage of carrying heavier payloads and being more maneuverable, benefits that remain significant in aerial combat.

 

[kaku]

China could move to pure 5th gen Fighter force but it can't it take lots of resources, China isn't stupid to go pure 5th gen Fighter Jets force, even USA don't have pure 5th gen Fighter Jet force and forget about Pakistan it will induct few 5th gen jets first and then gradually increase their numbers if our economy allows, pure 5th gen jet force is not happening in our lifetime (I mean PAF is not going have all 5th gen jets in its inventory in our lifetime)

Indeed.

As I have said this before several time, 4.5 gen are going nowhere. It might become 4.5+ or 4.5++, but we still be producing it even in 2050.

One can always adopt technologies developed for 5th gen into 4.5 gen, as it happened in LCA Mk2 or F-16 Block 70. And the same case will happen with 6th gen, adopting technologies like virtual cockpit into LCA Mk2, and might call it LCA Mk2B.

 

[Justin TruDont]

No country can afford to move on to a full 5th gen fighter force.

Unless they are small Nato countries which operate less than a 100 Fighter aircrafts and have a requirement for a single multi role top of the line fighters

Norway, Finland, Austria, Italy , Canada, Australia, are wealthy countries with small fighter requirements of 80-120 Fighters
They can afford to have an all 5th gen F35A fleet .

Same can't be said about UK , which believe it or not has a 67 billion USD Defence budget and intends to fly around 110 Eurofighters along with 48-72 F35A/Bs

While another major Power France will skip the 5th gen race and will continue to operate Rafale till 2045 when their 6th gen aircrafts enter service .
Infact France will receive the last of their 230+ Rafales in 2032 , when final batch of Rafale F5 is delivered

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

No country can afford to move on to a full 5th gen fighter force.

Unless they are small Nato countries which operate less than a 100 Fighter aircrafts and have a requirement for a single multi role top of the line fighters

Norway, Finland, Austria, Italy , Canada, Australia, are wealthy countries with small fighter requirements of 80-120 Fighters
They can afford to have an all 5th gen F35A fleet .

Same can't be said about UK , which believe it or not has a 67 billion USD Defence budget and intends to fly around 110 Eurofighters along with 48-72 F35A/Bs

While another major Power France will skip the 5th gen race and will continue to operate Rafale till 2045 when their 6th gen aircrafts enter service .
Infact France will receive the last of their 230+ Rafales in 2032 , when final batch of Rafale F5 is delivered

Affordability isn't the factor, the Indian version of Rafales costs three times more than the F35.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

Indeed.

As I have said this before several time, 4.5 gen are going nowhere. It might become 4.5+ or 4.5++, but we still be producing it even in 2050.

One can always adopt technologies developed for 5th gen into 4.5 gen, as it happened in LCA Mk2 or F-16 Block 70. And the same case will happen with 6th gen, adopting technologies like virtual cockpit into LCA Mk2, and might call it LCA Mk2B.

fifth generation jets will eventually become obsolete and be replaced by sixth generation jets but the fourth generation jets will still continue to be produced.