PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[m52k85]

Hi,

Expert at what---public forum information---stolen information.

News from other sources---never ever an input and prediction of his own---. Never ever any tactical or strategic information.

Hi,
Yes, public forum information, OSNIT of sorts.

 

[Corax]

Someone who is quoted as expert by newspapers and thinktanks, puts in the hard work to push buttons "everywhere", meticulously indexes, arranges, correlates and documents it.. Some people see that as a trait for which he ought to be criticised, most will see it as good hard work. Nothing to hide.

Yes I agree, Deino is a respected figure when it comes to military aviation in China, given his published works and books, even if sometimes he can be quick to dismiss certain possibilities But that was my point, why would such a respected figure waste his time with prepubescent Pak fanboys with their ego-feeding fake news and YouTube videos and the odd grumpy old guy who thinks he knows it all? But I guess that's the price to pay for a public forum, have to sift through all the flotsam to find anything meaningful.

 

[MastanKhan]

The advantage of acquiring the J-10CE is that production for the PLAAF will continue for the foreseeable future. So, the opportunity to buy - and in small batches - will be there for some time. A challenge with Western jets is that unless there is a big backlog (e.g., Rafale and F-16), you may have to commit to what you'll need upfront, or risk losing access to the jet due to a closed production line (e.g., India M2K).

Hi,

When a producer keeps producing a product, the biggest benefit to the end user is that it keeps getting the UPGRADES without any real investment of their own---.

 

[MastanKhan]

Yes I agree, Deino is a respected figure when it comes to military aviation in China, given his published works and books, even if sometimes he can be quick to dismiss certain possibilities But that was my point, why would such a respected figure waste his time with prepubescent Pak fanboys with their ego-feeding fake news and YouTube videos and the odd grumpy old guy who thinks he knows it all? But I guess that's the price to pay for a public forum, have to sift through all the flotsam to find anything meaningful.

Hi,

He has nowhere else to go to get the information---. These pre-pubescent pak fanboys or an odd grumpy guy are his ONLY and ONLY source of information---.

You have such a lack of understanding in things about defense equipment. basically you seem to be clueless---.

This is how critical defense related information is gained worldwide---thru snippets---comments here and there---my dad said that---my uncle confirmed it---my buddy was telling us---I have a resource---.

Why do you think he keeps asking for proof---keeps asking for confirmation in pointed needle like probes---insulting the posters---so some might spill out just tpo prove themselves to be correct.

Did you really believe that 'real' information would be advertised upfront and served on a platter---?

 

[MirageBlue]

I think people are confusing how the PAF plans for things with what the PAF already has in the pipeline. The PAF would never induct a new fighter platform without planning for 80-90+ units - e.g., Mirage III/5, F-16, and JF-17.

Several retired PAF AMs told me that scalability is a big part of the equation; if the PAF just wanted 24 aircraft, it would acquire the Typhoon or Su-35. However, AHQ always seeks a high-performance fighter the PAF can field in numbers.

However, and this is a big caveat, the PAF roadmap is an empty bottle that the acquisition pipeline is supposed to fill. In other words, the PAF wants 90 J-10CEs, but it only has 20 in its hands and, for now, that's it. When the funds become available, it'll order more J-10CEs, but across small batches.

That said, I find it interesting that despite all of the shady issues at the top, AHQ always has a sanity check at the end. They could've easily gone the glitz and glamour route and asked for 24 Typhoons, and that'd be it for the next 12-15 years.

24 Typhoons would've cost upwards of $6 to $6.5 billion.

For e.g. the deal for 28 Typhoons cost Kuwait $8.8 billion! While it may include some aspects that the PAF may not have needed at the same level, it would've still been prohibitively expensive for the PAF.

Western fourth gen fighters are eye wateringly expensive.

 

[MirageBlue]

Irony is that even if the PAF had all the money, it wouldn't get that many J-10CEs that soon. The program would still take 7-10 years at minimum. Look at how long it's taking India to acquire Rafales, for example.

IAF's issue isn't the money per se, as much as the convoluted defense acquisition procedures and the Modi govt. which is prioritising indigenous defence equipment over what is essentially an import with license manufacturing.

If the PAF had the money to acquire 80 J-10CEs then why would they hold off on it? There are still plenty of obsolete Mirages and F-7PGs to be replaced.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

And one F-7 is far superior to the whole IAF.

How is F-7 superior to Tejas ? Aside from range and payload, Tejas is comparable in capabilities to J10C.

 

[Deino]

Hi,

Expert at what---public forum information---stolen information.

News from other sources---never ever an input and prediction of his own---. Never ever any tactical or strategic information.

You are so funny, but in fact just a stupid idiot, a troll! Never heard of the concept of OSINT?

And by the way, yes I never provided "any tactical or strategic information" since the three hand-books on all three PLA branches with aerial assets - PLAAF, PLAN and PLA LH - with full Orbat tables, maps containing bases, operational radius, numbers and so on are just for hobby modellers, even if indeed some institutions, think tanks and experts seem to rate them quite valuable.

And regarding "never ever an input and prediction of his own", what about assessments of production rates, overall numbers in service and - just my latest work - the deciphering the new PLAN numbering system - are most likely unknown to you.

But since you are not interested in facts nor surely never read any of my works or any reviews, what was so far your contribution in terms of "tactical or strategic information"? Spitting shit against anyone, spreading lies and insults is at least by my understanding not a worthy contribution.

Anyway, a frustrated old man ...

 

[Ak01]

24 Typhoons would've cost upwards of $6 to $6.5 billion.

For e.g. the deal for 28 Typhoons cost Kuwait $8.8 billion! While it may include some aspects that the PAF may not have needed at the same level, it would've still been prohibitively expensive for the PAF.

Western fourth gen fighters are eye wateringly expensive.

this is dependant on whats procured too though.

austria calculated $150/per tranche 2, because it would be a limited, short term buy, probably wouldnt have been too unrealistic. iirc, not far off block 52 money

 

[Corax]

Hi,

He has nowhere else to go to get the information---. These pre-pubescent pak fanboys or an odd grumpy guy are his ONLY and ONLY source of information---.

You have such a lack of understanding in things about defense equipment. basically you seem to be clueless---.

This is how critical defense related information is gained worldwide---thru snippets---comments here and there---my dad said that---my uncle confirmed it---my buddy was telling us---I have a resource---.

Why do you think he keeps asking for proof---keeps asking for confirmation in pointed needle like probes---insulting the posters---so some might spill out just tpo prove themselves to be correct.

Did you really believe that 'real' information would be advertised upfront and served on a platter---?

I think you're running low on your medication, time to renew your prescription Mr used truck salesman.

 

[Awwad]

How is F-7 superior to Tejas ?

India have shown more confidence in mig-21 / F-7 then Tejas. It stationed mig-21s & SU-30s at forward bases in 2019. When these both types met their fate.

Aside from range and payload, Tejas is comparable in capabilities to J10C.

Aside from range & payload, JF-17C is many times better than SU-30MKI and comparable to Rafale.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

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[Deino]

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The funny part is, actually no-one in India or "among Indian Air Force" has panic "as Pakistan moves ahead with its plans to procure additional J-10C aircraft from China." since they indeed think their own Tejas would be vastly superior.

 

[studsmart]

The funny part is, actually no-one in India or "among Indian Air Force" has panic "as Pakistan moves ahead with its plans to procure additional J-10C aircraft from China." since they indeed think their own Tejas would be vastly superior.

Just like they thought Mig21bison can take care of JFT and F16