Parsis and Hindutva's Ethnic Nationalism in India

[Joe Shearer]

By ethnocentrism i mean non-interest in proselytizing as i couldnt find a better word. It was postulated that hindus dont want converts, which means there is disinterst in adding more people to the «tribe», tribe of common belief in this sense.

Ah, the matter is clearer now.
Yes, there is no mechanism visible for conversion to Hinduism.
HOWEVER, both the translation of Sakas to, arguably and possibly, to Rajput, Jat and Gujjar categories in modern Indian society, and the ethnic and epigraphic evidence regarding the history of south Indian state formation shows that there must have been clandestine, or, a better wording, ad hoc responses by the dominant Brahmins for accommodating the mleccha into the social structure.

 

[Peregrine]

I dont usually like to go into a religious debate as it raises emotions.

But i will say that history is a complex field, depending on so many factors and angles. If anything history is there for us to learn from it and move on. To create a more just society.

 

[vsdoc]

Ah, the matter is clearer now.
Yes, there is no mechanism visible for conversion to Hinduism.
HOWEVER, both the translation of Sakas to, arguably and possibly, to Rajput, Jat and Gujjar categories in modern Indian society, and the ethnic and epigraphic evidence regarding the history of south Indian state formation shows that there must have been clandestine, or, a better wording, ad hoc responses by the dominant Brahmins for accommodating the mleccha into the social structure.

Of course.

The Scythians. Coopted as the Pretorian guard.

When you cannot fight them. Wine them and dine them and make them your own.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Joe Shearer]

Of course.

The Scythians. Coopted as the Pretorian guard.

When you cannot fight them. Wine them and dine them and make them your own.

Cheers, Doc

Were the Scythian not Zoroastrian? They were Iranic, as we all know.

 

[vsdoc]

Were the Scythian not Zoroastrian? They were Iranic, as we all know.

As were the Agnikul Rajputs.

As were Maga (Magii) Brahmins.

As were probably Konkanasta Bammans as well.

 

[Peregrine]

That is the distinction I was making.

Between blood and rule.

The Vendidad is very clear about who is a Mazdayasni.

Cheers, Doc

Every group is entitled to have their own rule set and mind set. If zoroastrianism wanted to keep the religions to exclusively persian blood - here i assume indo-aryan blood- then its fine.

Islam is by contrast a religion that dosent segregate between race, ethnicity and color (blood). That is also fine. Xenophilia is a character of Islam.

 

[r3alist]

Islam is by contrast a religion that dosent segregate between race, ethnicity and color (blood). That is also fine. Xenophilia is a character of Islam.

I don't want to derail the topic , so won't labour the point, but islam says the above, that's true, but it does not advocate xenophilia per se from my understanding.
I would say it accommodates existing cultures and people's to maintain their societies under a wider banner of islam, the parts make the whole, ultimately we all pray in one mosque, hopefully.

 

[indushek]

I don't even think, Hinduism exists. Its just made up conglomeration of beliefs and texts. Even Dharma etc seem to be coined much later

 

[Peregrine]

I don't even think, Hinduism exists. Its just made up conglomeration of beliefs and texts. Even Dharma etc seem to be coined much later

As an outsider and one who has not read any hindu religious text, it seems to me hinduism in reality is a conglomerate of various beliefs, cultural traditions, teachers, teachings, deities and so on. Bound by loose similarity in some traits, and strong similarities in other cases.

But i might be wrong.

Lets take the example of Middle East where there is varoius religions like Islam, Christianity, Judaic. But also huge number of smaller less well known religions Alawites, Bahai, Mandaeism, Yazidi and Zoroastrianism.
They all have some similarities and yet are not the same. Some denominations have loose similarities while other have strong similarities.

I suspect we should characterize even Buddhism and Hinduistic beliefs under more approperiate name like Bharatism, Indianism or something like that. Even though it may sound like name of a nationalistic ideology than a religion.

Maybe the religions in middle-east in similar fashion can be meshed together adademically too and be named something like Nileoxusism…but in Islam its just called People of the Book.
Maybe indians also have a similar concept?

Anyway, the religions in both of these cultural regions would be better understood as interconnected web of traits, stories, characters, interpretations and ethics, that somehow still fit into the whole as one unit.

 

[Sam.]

Were the Scythian not Zoroastrian? They were Iranic, as we all know.

We were as Zoroastrian as we are Hindus, Sikhs and muslims. Jathera is underlined subculture and blood is supreme.

 

[Sam.]

As were the Agnikul Rajputs.

As were Maga (Magii) Brahmins.

As were probably Konkanasta Bammans as well.

Still trying to stay revelant doc , you will always be baniya and nothing else.

 

[vsdoc]

blood is supreme.

Blood

Faith

Soil

Good having you back cranky young man. Hope the business is doing good as are the kiddos.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Sam.]

Blood

Faith

Soil

Good having you back cranky young man. Hope the business is doing good as are the kiddos.

Cheers, Doc

Remove faith from it and we have a deal.

Business is doing fine just in constant learning and growing phase. All is well is as it can be , will be waiting for your all is lost tantrums after 2024 elections

 

[vsdoc]

Remove faith from it and we have a deal.

Business is doing fine just in constant learning and growing phase. All is well is as it can be , will be waiting for your all is lost tantrums after 2024 elections

Remove one, and you've already lost. Same as us. Just in larger numbers. Survive longer.

Nomadic warriors as you were, finally you had to set down root.

It was a pact.

Don't disturb us. We will call ourselves Hindu and provide the blood and muscle.

Rhe Brahmins got what they wanted. Needed. Their supremacy undisturbed.

Your tribe got to finally rest. On warm fertile soil. Weapons getting a breather.

You are Iranic. But central Asian wing. Probably never Zoroastrian. In that I am not inclined to disagree.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Nilgiri]

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@Joe Shearer @Sharma Ji @Nilgiri @Jbgt90tankguy @Guru Dutt @nighthawk @VersusChristi @JaneBhiDoYaaron @Waz @Musings

Cheers, Doc

Zoroastrians of North America:

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Actually @vsdoc , I forgot to mention one more Parsi closely tied in with my arc in HK.

I had British teacher in very first grade (really early intake grade before 1st grade kind of post-kindergarten) and she basically took a chance on me (given limited slots for intake) for that school....i.e English was not my mother tongue, I was very shy etc and so the interview of little me didnt really go that well....but she saw something in me anyway which I am thankful for....it impacted greatly.

But she a few years later married a Parsi (a Shroff and she became a Mrs. Shroff) and there was even a small assembly presentation later introducing the culture too. Very old foggy memory on this stuff though, but yet another HK Parsi connection for me. Its been great reaching out to them later in life and show what a journey its been since heh.