Will history repeat itself?

[Mrloveday]

Anyone who thinks Modi will do chamatkars for them are themselves idiots. There is no human capable of delivering perfection in our complicated country. Modi did ghanta for entire communities. Certain businessmen have surely benefited disproportionately, and that will happen under any govt in this country. It is those Marwadi and banias in Varanasi and Ayodhya who have been impacted by evictions and land given to Gujaratis and corporates. In this country anyone can be a victim with passage of time

Hut and shanties of poor Ayodhyans were demolished by BJP government in the name of development.

It was heartbreaking to see their tears.

Modi is transferring India's wealth to Gujarat.

Unless you belong to Bhil, Santhal, Gond, Naga or some such community, you are of Aryan origin too. And before you bring in Dravidians, they are outsiders too.

There are light skinned and hazel eyed members in my family.

But I am dark and have afro hair. I am proud of my afro Dravidian roots.

 

[Mrloveday]

UCC is basically about this

Modi destroyed Hindu society by encouraging 5th wave feminism and bringing in anti male laws.

Meanwhile Muslims were unaffected by it.

This is another trigger point for angry Hindu males.

 

[Paitoo]

Modi destroyed Hindu society by encouraging 5th wave feminism and bringing in anti male laws.

Meanwhile Muslims were unaffected by it.

This is another trigger point for angry Hindu males.

Muslims are clear about how they will operate. If you want to marry among them, you will have to convert to Islam. They will not convert to your religion. If Hindus have to compete, they will have to force such things among their own believers. Will they be able to do it? They won't. There is nothing Modi or anyone can do about it. This is how Hindu society is.
If conversions are banned, and Muslims can marry only amongst Muslims, then Hindus won't care about Muslim men have 4 wives, because they will be Muslim women only. But then you know what will happen. Muslims will casually drop the requirement of conversion of women for marriage. But they will continue to actively discourage their own women from mingling with Hindus. There is no way Hindus win, except by becoming like Muslims

 

[Baadil]

They won't.

Is there any such proscription in Hinduism as there is in Islam? Or do you mean manufacturing a new tenet of Hindu belief to proscribe marriage to Muslims? And how would a Muslim or Hindu be defined under such law?

There is no way Hindus win, except by becoming like Muslims

by accessing the primary material of both religions, you can arrive at your own reasoned conclusion as to whether this is a positive or negative result.

However, attempting to avoid this through discriminatory dog-whistle politics ultimately undermines the present foundations of Indian unity in pursuit of replacing them with new ones

 

[Baadil]

Muslims will casually drop the requirement of conversion of women for marriage.

Rather than falling into trap of imposing worldview driven by superficial understanding of seeing Muslims as a quasi-ethnic group, it would be ingenuous to refer to the actual religious tenets that forbid Muslims from marrying polytheists

 

[Sharma Ji]

Is there any such proscription in Hinduism as there is in Islam? Or do you mean manufacturing a new tenet of Hindu belief to proscribe marriage to Muslims? And how would a Muslim or Hindu be defined under such law?


by accessing the primary material of both religions, you can arrive at your own reasoned conclusion as to whether this is a positive or negative result.

However, attempting to avoid this through discriminatory dog-whistle politics ultimately undermines the present foundations of Indian unity in pursuit of replacing them with new ones

His point was about Musalman kattarpanti, or call it sticking to their belief, values, rules etc

It is true that (outside of bollywood and richie rich liberal types), Muslims are very possessive of their women, spl when it comes to marrying outside of their religion. Hindus have traditionally been waay waay more liberal on average.. both for men and women, btw.. "convert kar ke muslim banna hoga ? no problem !" lol

It will be the very very rare one in a million type Musalman father or family who will allow his daughter to marry outside of the Abrahamic faiths, Hindu hai toh bhool hi jao.. but even Christians etc ke saath shaadi/nikkah is discouraged.

When it comes to their sons, but, it is encouraged and cheered for loudly, conquest.. victory type scene.

Ab Hindus bhi hardcore ho rahe hain.. it's shocking how many, those one would never have imagined to do so.. are becoming hardcore Hindus and BJP voters..

good times.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Rather than falling into trap of imposing worldview driven by superficial understanding of seeing Muslims as a quasi-ethnic group, it would be ingenuous to refer to the actual religious tenets that forbid Muslims from marrying polytheists

Read my post above

Muslims still marry polytheists, they just make them convert to Islam.

 

[Jaeger]

You are not a typical Hinduwadi. You hate Gandhis so you vote for the BJP.

Hardcore Blood thirsty Sanghis turned against the BJP this time.

You know it very well that if the BJP had implemented UCC, NRC CAA, two child policy it would cross 400 seats all alone.

Particularly in UP, many were fed up with Yogi. They whined on social media that even in Yogi Raj, Muslims were targetting Hindus.

Modi and Shah clipped Yogi's wing. They wouldn't let Yogi pull a Godhra Kaand and screw Modi.

Modi knows better. His Gujarat stunt ended Vajpayee's political career.

Well fortunately vast majority Indian populace don't care about this kind of nonsense.
They just want their and thier children's lives to get better.

Modi is elected in spite of his religion and not because of it.

 

[Paitoo]

Is there any such proscription in Hinduism as there is in Islam? Or do you mean manufacturing a new tenet of Hindu belief to proscribe marriage to Muslims? And how would a Muslim or Hindu be defined under such law?

For all practical purposes, there isn't. I am sure some learned person will be able to dig out something, but by and large, there isn't anything that requires a person to convert to Hinduism in order to marry a Hindu. Indeed, most non Hindus who marry Hindus do not convert. I have quite a few friends who have Muslim wives, and they continue practicing Islam. In contrast, I don't know of anyone outside celebrity circles who married a Muslim man and did not have to convert. This is the situation in India. I don't know about outside. I am not saying what is wrong or right, just as it is. As long as marriages are not forced, people are free to decide what they want to do.

To be clear, I do not advocate manufacturing any new tenet. I do not even care about UCC. So I speak here as a third person, to the Hindu community who wants to address this "we are losing our women to polygamous Muslims" problem. UCC will not stop Muslim men from marrying Hindu women. For that you will need to bring anti conversion law. UCC can only stop polygamy amongst Muslim men, but that isn't the real objection. The real objection, which will not often be stated is that to be able to 'score' those 4 women, Muslims will find it difficult to find all of them from within the Muslim community, hence Hindu women will be targeted. But that targeting can only be prevented by anti Conversion law, which was never on the cards.

by accessing the primary material of both religions, you can arrive at your own reasoned conclusion as to whether this is a positive or negative result.

However, attempting to avoid this through discriminatory dog-whistle politics ultimately undermines the present foundations of Indian unity in pursuit of replacing them with new ones

I use the word 'win' to mean 'achieving your objective' and not to describe victory over anyone. In this case the ultimate objective is segregation. That Hindus and Muslims must not inter marry. Anyone with half a brain knows that all Muslim men cannot have 4 wives, unless somehow magically they are producing 4 daughters for every son. The real objective is segregation. Specifically "don't touch our daughters". This is a shared objective among both Hindus and Muslims. Hence there is nothing discriminatory.

 

[Baadil]

Read my post above

Muslims still marry polytheists, they just make them convert to Islam.

Likewise mate!
Perhaps they are requested to convert first before marriage to then you mean?

it would be ingenuous to refer to the actual religious tenets that forbid Muslims from marrying polytheists

His point was about Musalman kattarpanti, or call it sticking to their belief, values, rules etc

It is true that (outside of bollywood and richie rich liberal types), Muslims are very possessive of their women, spl when it comes to marrying outside of their religion. Hindus have traditionally been waay waay more liberal on average.. both for men and women, btw.. "convert kar ke muslim banna hoga ? no problem !" lol

It will be the very very rare one in a million type Musalman father or family who will allow his daughter to marry outside of the Abrahamic faiths, Hindu hai toh bhool hi jao.. but even Christians etc ke saath shaadi/nikkah is discouraged.

When it comes to their sons, but, it is encouraged and cheered for loudly, conquest.. victory type scene.

Ab Hindus bhi hardcore ho rahe hain.. it's shocking how many, those one would never have imagined to do so.. are becoming hardcore Hindus and BJP voters..

good times.

Not disputing this please refer back to the post you are replying to, regarding actual religious tenets rather than skirting around which sadly we can be prone to doing

Is there any such proscription in Hinduism as there is in Islam? Or do you mean manufacturing a new tenet of Hindu belief to proscribe marriage to Muslims?

^What does it mean to be hardcore Hindu?

 

[Paitoo]

Rather than falling into trap of imposing worldview driven by superficial understanding of seeing Muslims as a quasi-ethnic group, it would be ingenuous to refer to the actual religious tenets that forbid Muslims from marrying polytheists

I am not sure I follow you

 

[Baadil]

there isn't anything that requires a person to convert to Hinduism in order to marry a Hindu.

Thanks for your reply
Whereas in Islam, there is a requirement. Islam is an expansionist religion by design.

I have quite a few friends who have Muslim wives, and they continue practicing Islam.

Personal choices have no reflection upon the objective rulings within the religion. In this regard, they would not have adhered to the religious tenet of marrying non-Muslims.

I am not saying what is wrong or right, just as it is.

Of course not saying you are

For that you will need to bring anti conversion law.

Which would be inherently discriminatory. To be clear, I use discrimination to mean recognising the difference between two religious groups. Does Indian law define what is a Hindu or Muslim? If not, how would a Hindu be defined that excludes the definition of a Muslim?

UCC can only stop polygamy amongst Muslim men, but that isn't the real objection.

I am not versed on UCC just mentioning principles.

I use the word 'win' to mean 'achieving your objective' and not to describe victory over anyone

I understood what you meant

In this case the ultimate objective is segregation.

Islam is inherently expansionist

This is a shared objective among both Hindus and Muslims.

 

[Sharma Ji]

The real objection, which will not often be stated is that to be able to 'score' those 4 women, Muslims will find it difficult to find all of them from within the Muslim community, hence Hindu women will be targeted. But that targeting can only be prevented by anti Conversion law, which was never on the cards.

Asmanjas

 

[Baadil]

I am not sure I follow you

Viewing Muslims as an ethnicity or morphing it into such when they are adherents of a religious belief and way of life. Hindus supposedly the same.

Pakistanis especially fall into this due to persisting identity crisis, is to morph some “Pakistani” ethnicity.

Focusing on inter-group dynamics without delving into actual tenets of each group’s religion is not sufficient in addressing the causality of communal tensions

 

[Sharma Ji]

Likewise mate!
Perhaps they are requested to convert first before marriage to then you mean?


Not disputing this please refer back to the post you are replying to, regarding actual religious tenets rather than skirting around which sadly we can be prone to doing


^What does it mean to be hardcore Hindu?

Just so we're clear, I happen to be of a very socially liberal bent. Which is to say, idgaf. Like the saying goes.. jab mia biwi raazi, toh kya karega qazi ? I'm just doing social commentary here and speaking from anecdotal experience from among people I happen to know personally. I'm also Indian so I kinda have an idea about our society here.

and no, as Paitoo pointed out, there isn't any tenets or anything in the Dharm, not to my knowledge anyway... it is all purely driven by emotion.

Hardcore Hindu would be strictly vegetarian, and even picky about what vegetables lol.