China's Naval Dependency: The Ships and Submarines Relying on Foreign Designed Engines

Status
Not open for further replies.

DDG-80

Trusted Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2023
Messages
3,308
Reaction score
7,504
Reputation
4,268.2
Country of Origin
Country of Residence

Surface Ships​

  1. Type 054A Frigates
    • Engines: Pielstick PA6 STC diesel engines (French design, licensed production by Shaanxi Diesel Engine Factory)
The Type 054A frigate, a cornerstone of China's modern naval fleet, is lauded for its advanced missile systems and versatile capabilities. However, beneath the deck lies a dependency that China would prefer to keep under wraps. These frigates are powered by four Pielstick PA6 STC diesel engines. The Pielstick engines, a French design, are produced under license by the Shaanxi Diesel Engine Factory in China. This arrangement has enabled China to equip its frigates with reliable propulsion systems without having to develop such technology independently. The reliance on Pielstick’s tried-and-tested design has provided operational dependability, but it also highlights China’s lag in developing its own high-performance diesel engines for such crucial naval assets.

2. Type 052D Destroyers
  • Engines: MTU 20V 956 TB92 diesel engines (German design, licensed production)
  • Gas Turbines: The QC-280 gas turbines, like those on the Type 052D, are influenced by the Ukrainian GT25000 design.
  • The Type 052D destroyers, often seen as a testament to China’s naval modernization, similarly depend on foreign technology for their propulsion. These destroyers use MTU 20V 956 TB92 diesel engines, a robust and reliable German design. The MTU engines are produced under license in China, ensuring that these warships can perform efficiently. The heart of their propulsion remains a product of German engineering. The use of these licensed engines underscores the gap in China’s ability to produce high-quality diesel engines domestically, a gap that contrasts with its advanced shipbuilding capabilities.

Diesel-Electric Submarines (SSKs)​

  1. Type 039 (Song class)
    • Engines: MTU 396 SE84 diesel engines (German design, licensed production)
  2. Type 041 (Yuan class)
    • Engines: HND 8V 4000 M70 diesel engines (MTU 4000 series, German design, licensed production by Henan Diesel Engine Industry Co.)

Type 039 (Song Class) and Type 041 (Yuan Class) Submarines​

And then we have the submarines. The Type 039 (Song class) submarines run on MTU 396 SE84 diesel engines – another German gem. Moving on to the Type 041 (Yuan class) subs, you’d think there’d be some breakthrough, right? Nope. These submarines use HND 8V 4000 M70 diesel engines, which are essentially based on the MTU 4000 series engines. These engines are produced by Henan Diesel Engine Industry Co., Ltd. (HND) under license, maintaining the reliance on German technological foundations.


China's naval fleet might look fierce from a distance, but up close, it's clear they’re leaning hard on German and French tech to keep things moving. Sure, China has made some impressive strides in shipbuilding, radar systems, and missiles, but when it comes to the heart of their ships – the engines – they're still stuck in the passenger seat, letting Europe drive.

So, next time China tries to throw shade at other countries like India for their naval advancements, maybe take a moment to reflect. India might be licensing tech too, but we’re also putting serious effort into developing our own engines and cutting down on foreign dependency. India’s got local manufacturers like Kirloskar stepping up, and strategic partnerships that actually transfer technology, not just slap a new label on it.

China, it’s time to get real. Stop riding on borrowed tech and start investing in your own diesel engine development. Only then can you truly claim to have a fleet that’s as powerful and independent as you want the world to believe. Until then, maybe hold off on the mockery – after all, those shiny warships of yours are still cruising on European engines.
 
Last edited:

Surface Ships​

  1. Type 054A Frigates
    • Engines: Pielstick PA6 STC diesel engines (French design, licensed production by Shaanxi Diesel Engine Factory)
The Type 054A frigate, a cornerstone of China's modern naval fleet, is lauded for its advanced missile systems and versatile capabilities. However, beneath the deck lies a dependency that China would prefer to keep under wraps. These frigates are powered by four Pielstick PA6 STC diesel engines. The Pielstick engines, a French design, are produced under license by the Shaanxi Diesel Engine Factory in China. This arrangement has enabled China to equip its frigates with reliable propulsion systems without having to develop such technology independently. The reliance on Pielstick’s tried-and-tested design has provided operational dependability, but it also highlights China’s lag in developing its own high-performance diesel engines for such crucial naval assets.

2. Type 052D Destroyers
  • Engines: MTU 20V 956 TB92 diesel engines (German design, licensed production)
The Type 052D destroyers, often seen as a testament to China’s naval modernization, similarly depend on foreign technology for their propulsion. These destroyers use MTU 20V 956 TB92 diesel engines, a robust and reliable German design. The MTU engines are produced under license in China, ensuring that these warships can perform efficiently. The heart of their propulsion remains a product of German engineering. The use of these licensed engines underscores the gap in China’s ability to produce high-quality diesel engines domestically, a gap that contrasts with its advanced shipbuilding capabilities.

Diesel-Electric Submarines (SSKs)​

  1. Type 039 (Song class)
    • Engines: MTU 396 SE84 diesel engines (German design, licensed production)
  2. Type 041 (Yuan class)
    • Engines: HND 8V 4000 M70 diesel engines (MTU 4000 series, German design, licensed production by Henan Diesel Engine Industry Co.)

Type 039 (Song Class) and Type 041 (Yuan Class) Submarines​

And then we have the submarines. The Type 039 (Song class) submarines run on MTU 396 SE84 diesel engines – another German gem. Moving on to the Type 041 (Yuan class) subs, you’d think there’d be some breakthrough, right? Nope. These submarines use HND 8V 4000 M70 diesel engines, which are essentially based on the MTU 4000 series engines. These engines are produced by Henan Diesel Engine Industry Co., Ltd. (HND) under license, maintaining the reliance on German technological foundations.


China's naval fleet might look fierce from a distance, but up close, it's clear they’re leaning hard on German and French tech to keep things moving. Sure, China has made some impressive strides in shipbuilding, radar systems, and missiles, but when it comes to the heart of their ships – the engines – they're still stuck in the passenger seat, letting Europe drive.

So, next time China tries to throw shade at other countries like India for their naval advancements, maybe take a moment to reflect. India might be licensing tech too, but we’re also putting serious effort into developing our own engines and cutting down on foreign dependency. India’s got local manufacturers like Kirloskar stepping up, and strategic partnerships that actually transfer technology, not just slap a new label on it.

China, it’s time to get real. Stop riding on borrowed tech and start investing in your own diesel engine development. Only then can you truly claim to have a fleet that’s as powerful and independent as you want the world to believe. Until then, maybe hold off on the mockery – after all, those shiny warships of yours are still cruising on European engines.

@Pingle @Guru Dutt @kaku @MirageBlue @vkdindian
there is no dispute that when it comes to marine and diesel engines french and germans are the best but apart from all that is that the reason why germans keep pocking there nose in delaying dilivery of there engines and gearboxes for indian weapons ???? wow sometimes things are so simple
 
there is no dispute that when it comes to marine and diesel engines french and germans are the best but apart from all that is that the reason why germans keep pocking there nose in delaying dilivery of there engines and gearboxes for indian weapons ???? wow sometimes things are so simple
You will be happy to know that Elecon Engineering, with consultation from German company Renk, has designed, developed, and manufactured gearboxes for our INS Vikrant.
 
You will be happy to know that Elecon Engineering, with consultation from German company Renk, has designed, developed, and manufactured gearboxes for our INS Vikrant.
no wonder it took so much time
 
Another “cope” thread from Indians.

The diesel engine is just there more as an efficiency backup than critical to the overall running of the warship.

US warships mainly use gas turbines and rarely use diesel as well.

China has its QC-280 gas turbine and can drop the European diesel engines as they are not strictly necessary for warships.
 
The diesel engine is just there more as an efficiency backup than critical to the overall running of the warship.
Diesel engines aren’t just some spare tire you keep around for emergencies. They’re the bread and butter for long hauls. Sure, gas turbines are great for sprinting, but for cruising around on patrol or covering long distances without guzzling fuel like a frat boy at a kegger, you need diesel engines. They keep things moving efficiently and help stretch out the fuel budget.
 

Surface Ships​

  1. Type 054A Frigates
    • Engines: Pielstick PA6 STC diesel engines (French design, licensed production by Shaanxi Diesel Engine Factory)
The Type 054A frigate, a cornerstone of China's modern naval fleet, is lauded for its advanced missile systems and versatile capabilities. However, beneath the deck lies a dependency that China would prefer to keep under wraps. These frigates are powered by four Pielstick PA6 STC diesel engines. The Pielstick engines, a French design, are produced under license by the Shaanxi Diesel Engine Factory in China. This arrangement has enabled China to equip its frigates with reliable propulsion systems without having to develop such technology independently. The reliance on Pielstick’s tried-and-tested design has provided operational dependability, but it also highlights China’s lag in developing its own high-performance diesel engines for such crucial naval assets.

2. Type 052D Destroyers
  • Engines: MTU 20V 956 TB92 diesel engines (German design, licensed production)
  • Gas Turbines: The QC-280 gas turbines, like those on the Type 052D, are influenced by the Ukrainian GT25000 design.
  • The Type 052D destroyers, often seen as a testament to China’s naval modernization, similarly depend on foreign technology for their propulsion. These destroyers use MTU 20V 956 TB92 diesel engines, a robust and reliable German design. The MTU engines are produced under license in China, ensuring that these warships can perform efficiently. The heart of their propulsion remains a product of German engineering. The use of these licensed engines underscores the gap in China’s ability to produce high-quality diesel engines domestically, a gap that contrasts with its advanced shipbuilding capabilities.

Diesel-Electric Submarines (SSKs)​

  1. Type 039 (Song class)
    • Engines: MTU 396 SE84 diesel engines (German design, licensed production)
  2. Type 041 (Yuan class)
    • Engines: HND 8V 4000 M70 diesel engines (MTU 4000 series, German design, licensed production by Henan Diesel Engine Industry Co.)

Type 039 (Song Class) and Type 041 (Yuan Class) Submarines​

And then we have the submarines. The Type 039 (Song class) submarines run on MTU 396 SE84 diesel engines – another German gem. Moving on to the Type 041 (Yuan class) subs, you’d think there’d be some breakthrough, right? Nope. These submarines use HND 8V 4000 M70 diesel engines, which are essentially based on the MTU 4000 series engines. These engines are produced by Henan Diesel Engine Industry Co., Ltd. (HND) under license, maintaining the reliance on German technological foundations.


China's naval fleet might look fierce from a distance, but up close, it's clear they’re leaning hard on German and French tech to keep things moving. Sure, China has made some impressive strides in shipbuilding, radar systems, and missiles, but when it comes to the heart of their ships – the engines – they're still stuck in the passenger seat, letting Europe drive.

So, next time China tries to throw shade at other countries like India for their naval advancements, maybe take a moment to reflect. India might be licensing tech too, but we’re also putting serious effort into developing our own engines and cutting down on foreign dependency. India’s got local manufacturers like Kirloskar stepping up, and strategic partnerships that actually transfer technology, not just slap a new label on it.

China, it’s time to get real. Stop riding on borrowed tech and start investing in your own diesel engine development. Only then can you truly claim to have a fleet that’s as powerful and independent as you want the world to believe. Until then, maybe hold off on the mockery – after all, those shiny warships of yours are still cruising on European engines.

The "French Heart" that promotes domestic frigates is actually "self-developed" by China

Husu Shi Lao Observer.com Deputy Editor-in-Chief 2019-04-25 22:41

Along with the celebration of the 70th anniversary of the founding of the Navy, Shi Lao began planning at the beginning of this year and started writing in late January. After nearly three months of procrastination and procrastination between writing other WeChat articles and military reviews, he finally caught up with the push of the last article of the Navy's great history on April 23. Although the article actually omitted a lot of specific models, such as the series of developments of the 037 type after the 1980s, and a lot of plans that the Navy has remained in the planning stage, but Shi Lao thought he had sorted out the basic clues. If he wants to improve on this topic in the future, Shi Lao has a foundation.


▲ So Shi Lao can write something else

If we talk about the most critical ship power system of the Navy in recent years, it is undoubtedly the GT-25000 gas turbine that was introduced from Ukraine and has undergone three rounds of localization and improvement. However, if we talk about the power system with the largest number of equipment on active medium-sized ships, it is undoubtedly the 16PA6V-280STC diesel engine equipped on the 054, 054A and 056 frigates. After all, there are 4 engines on each of the 32 054/054A ships and 2 engines on each of the 056 ships, which is more than 200 diesel engines. Only those boat engines under 500 tons can be compared.


▲ The production of this engine is indeed not small in the contemporary era

Speaking of the 16PA6V-280STC diesel engine, everyone knows that this thing is of French origin. In 1978, my country signed an agreement with the French Thermal Engine Association through the China National Technical Import and Export Corporation to introduce the PA series of medium-speed high-horsepower diesel engine patents, and the Sixth Machine Department at that time handed it over to Shaanxi Diesel for trial production and manufacturing. But why did China introduce this series so early, but it was not used in batches on domestic frigates until after 2000?


▲ All the frigates built by the Chinese Navy in recent years use this main engine

This requires a careful examination of the contents of the "S.E.M.T-PIELSTICK

PC2 and PA6 Diesel Engine License Agreement" signed that year. Although the PA6 series diesel engines mentioned in the French agreement have a cylinder diameter of 280 mm and a single-cylinder output power of 400 horsepower, they have two branches according to the cylinder layout, one is in-line and the other is V-type. The former has 6, 8, and 9 cylinder models with a power of 2400-3600 horsepower, and the latter has 12, 16, and 18 cylinder models with a power of 4800-7200 horsepower.


▲ China's current PA6 series diesel engines are also flourishing

After the introduction of PA6, the first diesel engine trial-produced by Shaanxi Diesel was the 6PA6L engine with the simplest structure and the smallest power, and it was successfully trial-produced in May 1983. However, this 2400 horsepower engine is mainly used for internal combustion locomotives, and marine engines require at least 12 cylinders. Since the French licensing information and parts are complete, the first 12PA6V was assembled in October 1983 and was approved by France the following year.


▲ The Type 918 minelayer became the first Chinese warship to use French heart

According to Chinese tradition, new diesel engines are generally used on auxiliary ships to verify relevant performance. Therefore, the first batch of 12PA6V was installed on the Type 918 minelayer. After the performance is verified, it will be used on more important main battle ships. The new batch of 12PA6V-280MPC diesel engines were used on the 037II missile boat and the 072III large landing ship in the early 1990s. They were equipped with domestic superchargers and met the use needs of both.


▲ The small 037II type was stuffed with three main engines of this type, and the space was crowded.

The 12PA6V-280MPC diesel engine on the 037II missile boat has adopted the method of additional supercharging system, which has improved the problems of high fuel consumption and large smoke exhaust at low speed of diesel engine to a certain extent. However, if the PA6 series diesel engine wants to achieve satisfactory operating results in the entire speed range, it must use a better technical approach-sequential supercharging technology. The so-called sequential supercharging technology is the STC (Sequential Turbo Charging) in the later 16PA6V-280STC engine.


▲ It is not difficult to see that the power system using STC supercharging has significantly increased power and reduced weight

Sequential supercharging refers to a supercharging system composed of two or more turbochargers in parallel. Its main purpose is to solve the matching contradiction between the diesel engine and the supercharger, improve the low-operating performance of the diesel engine, and at the same time, like other supercharging methods, increase the power of the diesel engine, and increase the power of a single diesel engine by about 10%. At that time, STC technology was blank in China, but the French Thermal Engine Association did have a PA6 diesel engine with STC supercharging. However, the French were not honest, and they were unwilling to provide us with this new technology easily, and there were no drawings or materials at all.


▲ Although the French are more loyal to money, they are not always smart

Because among the domestic products at that time, the PA6 series was the most promising diesel engine for the next generation of medium-sized ships, the National Defense Science and Technology Commission, the China Shipbuilding Corporation and the Navy were determined to upgrade the PA6 diesel engine to STC. In order to overcome this difficulty, during the "Eighth Five-Year Plan", Harbin Engineering and Shaanxi Diesel jointly demonstrated and developed the design and prototype of the STC supercharger, and verified it on a 12PA6V-280; then during the "Ninth Five-Year Plan", according to the long-term planning of the Navy's power plant and the power requirements of the frigate, the development of the 16PA6V-280STC diesel engine was started. The project started in 1996, the prototype motor vehicle was completed in 1998, and the performance verification and 200-hour endurance test were completed in 1999. So far, the domestic diesel engine with performance that meets the new generation of frigates has been initially established.


▲ France's own frigates use the 12PA6V-280STC engine

The rated power of the 16PA6V-280STC is 7040 horsepower, and the overload power can reach 7750 horsepower. Its volume is much more compact than the previous generation VE390 series diesel engine, and its fuel consumption is reduced by nearly 10%. It is more suitable for the power requirements of 3000 to 4000 ton missile frigates. The only problem is that although the PA6 series engine has been produced in China for many years, the supercharging system of this 16PA6V-280STC is also independently developed, but the overall localization rate of the machine is only 73%. Considering that this engine is to be used in batches for our army's main battleships, this localization rate obviously needs to be improved. Therefore, in 1999, the development of the 16PA6V-280STC with a localization rate of 95.47% was immediately launched.


▲ This is the engine used in 054 later

The relevant research and development work progressed smoothly. In 2000, this diesel engine, which had to be imported except for a few equipment such as the main bearing, completed the 400-hour endurance test and passed the product appraisal. In 2001, the Navy ordered 8 16PA6V-280STC diesel engines at one time, 4 for Guangzhou Huangpu and 4 for Hudong-Zhonghua - these are the 8 main engines used by the two 054 missile frigates. Later, as the 054A missile frigate was ready to be put into mass production, the factory further carried out research on the full localization of the 16PA6V-280STC engine, and completed the full localization and reliability improvement of this type of engine at the end of 2011, with a localization rate of up to 99.2%.


▲ It is precisely because of the high localization that the construction of 054A and 056 can be worry-free

The successful development of the 16PA6V-280STC diesel engine with high reliability and high localization rate has ensured the replacement of the diesel main engine of the Chinese Navy frigates after 2000, and the power demand of more than 80 frigates in total. If other types of PA6 series diesel engines are included, the power systems of a large number of key surface ships, including the large tank landing ships built in batches in the new century of the Navy, will benefit from this. From this perspective, although the introduction of the PA6 series diesel engine is a special product of the "honeymoon period" of East-West relations, the ability to promote this fate to the contemporary main battleships of the Chinese Navy is still based on the unremitting research and accumulated industrial foundation of Chinese military workers.

 
Diesel engines aren’t just some spare tire you keep around for emergencies. They’re the bread and butter for long hauls. Sure, gas turbines are great for sprinting, but for cruising around on patrol or covering long distances without guzzling fuel like a frat boy at a kegger, you need diesel engines. They keep things moving efficiently and help stretch out the fuel budget.

No modern gas turbines like QC-280 are also quite efficient at cruise speed.

It is a “nice to have” but not crucial.

If China did not have access to the European engines then they can quickly redesign their ships to only use Chinese gas engines.
 
China has its QC-280 gas turbine and can drop the European diesel engines as they are not strictly necessary for warships.
Modern gas turbines are efficient, they still consume more fuel than diesel engines at lower speeds. Diesel engines excel in fuel efficiency during cruising and long missions, which is crucial for blue water operations. Gas turbines are essential for high-speed operations and rapid acceleration. However, they're not as fuel-efficient as diesel engines at lower speeds, which are necessary for prolonged missions and economic fuel use.
 
Wrong. US warships play it smart with hybrid setups. Take the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers; they’ve got COGAG propulsion. Then there are the Littoral Combat Ships with their CODAG systems. Diesel engines are all about endurance and efficiency. They’re not just there for show.
Dude, what weird rumor are you talking about?
COGAG propulsion system refers to Combined gas turbine and gas turbine,
which means that the propulsion system is purely composed of gas turbines, and there is no Diesel engines at all.
 
Modern gas turbines are efficient, they still consume more fuel than diesel engines at lower speeds. Diesel engines excel in fuel efficiency during cruising and long missions, which is crucial for blue water operations. Gas turbines are essential for high-speed operations and rapid acceleration. However, they're not as fuel-efficient as diesel engines at lower speeds, which are necessary for prolonged missions and economic fuel use.


Thank you for making my point.

Chinese fleet won’t be grounded if China does not have access to diesel engines as they can quickly redesign to use only gas turbine engine.

If China felt the diesel engine was critical they would have developed their own like they did with gas engine.
 
Thank you for making my point.

Chinese fleet won’t be grounded if China does not have access to diesel engines as they can quickly redesign to use only gas turbine engine.

If China felt the diesel engine was critical they would have developed their own like they did with gas engine.
No, no, the situation you are talking about does not exist. The parts of the Chinese Navy's diesel engines are 100% domestically produced, and only the design drawings come from the authorized country. Therefore, unless the Chinese Navy itself does not want to use the licensed engines, no other country can stop China from continuing to produce and use these engines. At the same time, China has domestic diesel engines with sufficient performance to replace these engines. A simple example is Thailand's submarines. When Germany refused to sell engines to Thailand, China immediately proposed domestic engines as a replacement. The reason why the Chinese Navy continues to use these licensed diesel engines is the relevant logistics support system established in the past few decades, not that there is no alternative domestic diesel engine now.
 

Surface Ships​

  1. Type 054A Frigates
    • Engines: Pielstick PA6 STC diesel engines (French design, licensed production by Shaanxi Diesel Engine Factory)
The Type 054A frigate, a cornerstone of China's modern naval fleet, is lauded for its advanced missile systems and versatile capabilities. However, beneath the deck lies a dependency that China would prefer to keep under wraps. These frigates are powered by four Pielstick PA6 STC diesel engines. The Pielstick engines, a French design, are produced under license by the Shaanxi Diesel Engine Factory in China. This arrangement has enabled China to equip its frigates with reliable propulsion systems without having to develop such technology independently. The reliance on Pielstick’s tried-and-tested design has provided operational dependability, but it also highlights China’s lag in developing its own high-performance diesel engines for such crucial naval assets.

2. Type 052D Destroyers
  • Engines: MTU 20V 956 TB92 diesel engines (German design, licensed production)
  • Gas Turbines: The QC-280 gas turbines, like those on the Type 052D, are influenced by the Ukrainian GT25000 design.
  • The Type 052D destroyers, often seen as a testament to China’s naval modernization, similarly depend on foreign technology for their propulsion. These destroyers use MTU 20V 956 TB92 diesel engines, a robust and reliable German design. The MTU engines are produced under license in China, ensuring that these warships can perform efficiently. The heart of their propulsion remains a product of German engineering. The use of these licensed engines underscores the gap in China’s ability to produce high-quality diesel engines domestically, a gap that contrasts with its advanced shipbuilding capabilities.

Diesel-Electric Submarines (SSKs)​

  1. Type 039 (Song class)
    • Engines: MTU 396 SE84 diesel engines (German design, licensed production)
  2. Type 041 (Yuan class)
    • Engines: HND 8V 4000 M70 diesel engines (MTU 4000 series, German design, licensed production by Henan Diesel Engine Industry Co.)

Type 039 (Song Class) and Type 041 (Yuan Class) Submarines​

And then we have the submarines. The Type 039 (Song class) submarines run on MTU 396 SE84 diesel engines – another German gem. Moving on to the Type 041 (Yuan class) subs, you’d think there’d be some breakthrough, right? Nope. These submarines use HND 8V 4000 M70 diesel engines, which are essentially based on the MTU 4000 series engines. These engines are produced by Henan Diesel Engine Industry Co., Ltd. (HND) under license, maintaining the reliance on German technological foundations.


China's naval fleet might look fierce from a distance, but up close, it's clear they’re leaning hard on German and French tech to keep things moving. Sure, China has made some impressive strides in shipbuilding, radar systems, and missiles, but when it comes to the heart of their ships – the engines – they're still stuck in the passenger seat, letting Europe drive.

So, next time China tries to throw shade at other countries like India for their naval advancements, maybe take a moment to reflect. India might be licensing tech too, but we’re also putting serious effort into developing our own engines and cutting down on foreign dependency. India’s got local manufacturers like Kirloskar stepping up, and strategic partnerships that actually transfer technology, not just slap a new label on it.

China, it’s time to get real. Stop riding on borrowed tech and start investing in your own diesel engine development. Only then can you truly claim to have a fleet that’s as powerful and independent as you want the world to believe. Until then, maybe hold off on the mockery – after all, those shiny warships of yours are still cruising on European engines.

052D engine made in Germany? German media forced to touch porcelain to add drama to themselves, in fact, it can be replaced at any time

Original 2021-11-11 19:43·Military writer Chen Xi

In the past 10 years, the progress of my country's navy in equipment level is obvious to all. In the past, my country's navy even often pulled out the old and dilapidated 051 destroyers for inspection. Now all 051 destroyers have been retired.

my country's navy has entered an era with high equipment quality, large equipment quantity, and quite complete structure. Among them, the representative work is undoubtedly the 052D destroyer. This destroyer is the first type of my country's navy, the main surface ship that truly reaches the world's advanced level. In 2012, the first 052D destroyer, Kunming, officially joined the People's Navy combat sequence. Up to now, there are 20 052D destroyers in service, and at least more than a dozen will be in service in the future!

Unexpectedly, the rapid development of our navy has attracted the dissatisfaction of the Germans. Just a few days ago, German media said that the power system of the 052D destroyer uses German technology, which involves the famous German company Daimler Benz Group, its subsidiary MTU, and the French branch of the Volkswagen Group! These companies may not care about the so-called export control orders of the United States and Europe in the process of selling engines to our navy.

In fact, this kind of targeting our weapons and equipment and forcibly "touching porcelain" has happened more than once or twice. So is the German media's criticism of their own companies justified? The answer is obviously no. First of all, the 052D destroyer adopts a diesel-fuel alternating power mode. When sailing at high speed, it will use a gas turbine as the main power, and when sailing at low speed, it will use a diesel engine. This practice is because the design work of the 052D destroyer was relatively early, and secondly, it is due to cost considerations.

At present, the power system of the Type 052D destroyer mainly includes two parts. The first is the gas turbine that plays an absolute main role. The gas turbine used on the destroyer is my country's domestically produced QC-280. This gas turbine is a 100% domestic model developed on the basis of the UGT-25000 gas turbine introduced from Ukraine in the 1990s. On the domestically produced UGT-25000 model, the power of QC-280 has been greatly improved, giving the 052D surging power.

In addition to the gas turbine, there are two MTU-20 V956 TB92 diesel engines that play an auxiliary role. This diesel engine can provide power when the destroyer is sailing at a low speed. Its cost is relatively low. However, it must be pointed out here that the reason why the Type 052D destroyer can reach a maximum speed of 32 knots is not because of the diesel engine, but because of the gas turbine.

The MTU-20 V956 TB92 diesel engine is also a model of cooperation between Chinese and Western companies on dual-use products. my country can pull out alternative products anytime and anywhere. For example, after the Crimean crisis in 2014, Russia cut off all military exchanges with the West.

The 21631-type "Thug-M" light missile frigate originally used the diesel engine of the German MTU company. After the supply was cut off, it quickly chose the diesel engine of my country's Hechai Heavy Industry. The latter has a much higher cost-effectiveness than the former. It is also worth mentioning that this kind of dual-use product does not require an export license at all. The German media is too good at adding drama to themselves.

Nowadays, many traditional Western companies have no technical advantages over my country. The reason why my country still buys these products is that on the one hand, their performance may be relatively low, but the technology is more mature, and the cost after mass production is low. On the other hand, it is also because my country also wants to maintain relations with Western countries through these transactions. If some Western countries still believe that my country can be "choked" in areas involving national defense and security, then they are too naive.




Kanwa: China's warship engines have made a breakthrough and will be equipped on domestic aircraft carriers in the future [HD]

January 29, 2015 08:37:52 | Editor: Kong Xianglong | Source: Global Network

The 052D missile destroyer is the most advanced and powerful warship independently developed and built by my country. The 052D is upgraded and built on the basis of the 052C destroyer. The number of vertical launch devices has been increased, and anti-ship missiles have been integrated into the vertical launch devices. It has a simple appearance design and layout, as well as the iconic four-sided large phased array radar.

The Canadian Kanwa Defense Review published an article on January 25, saying that after the 052D enters the rapid production stage, China's QC280 gas turbine production will increase significantly, and the annual output will reach 10 units, which can meet the requirements of building at least 5 052D missile destroyers at the same time, or even building larger surface ships. Moreover, the article also pointed out that Jiangnan Shipyard will develop a gas turbine propulsion system for China's future domestic aircraft carriers based on the QC280 gas turbine.

The article said that Jiangnan Changxing Island Shipyard has been installing equipment for three 052D missile destroyers since May 2014, and the fifth 052D of the same model has also begun construction in the indoor berth. One of the missile destroyers began sea trials in 2014. As of 2014, Jiangnan Shipyard has built a total of four 052D missile destroyers. It is unprecedented in China to install equipment for three modern missile destroyers and build large missile destroyers of more than 7,000 tons at the same shipyard at such a fast speed.

The rapid construction of 052D missile destroyers by Jiangnan Shipyard shows that China has fully mastered the DA80/GT25000 gas turbine technology introduced from Ukraine, and has also solved a series of technical problems. The People's Liberation Army Navy is not satisfied with the DA80 installed on the 052C/B. When the gas turbine was first introduced, the processing of the engine blades was quite rough. For many years, China has been developing 30MW gas turbines. Based on DA80, China has successfully developed shipborne QC280 gas turbines and industrial QD280 gas turbines. Hanhe has interviewed ZORYA JSC of Ukraine several times. The company's design department said that they had to provide parts to China. At the same time, they also need to provide a lot of information and opinions during the equipment installation process, and sometimes require them to send experts to China.

Based on the number of DA80 parts introduced by China from Ukraine, Hanhe estimates that the total number of DA80 gas turbines installed in China is not large and the production capacity is limited. In the first stage, Ukraine only provided China with 10 semi-finished DA80 gas turbines.

After 052D enters the rapid production stage, China's QC280 production will increase significantly. How to upgrade QC280? A series of issues touched upon by China's shipbuilding magazine revealed the general direction of China's gas turbine upgrade, namely: (1) reduce fuel consumption; (2) enhance propulsion power; (3) annual production of QC280 and QD280 reaches 20 units, and production is increased as needed. According to the above opinions, the annual production of QC280 will be 10 units, which can meet the requirements of building at least 5 052D guided missile destroyers at the same time, and even building larger surface ships.

Based on the QC280 gas turbine, the aircraft carrier built by Jiangnan Shipyard will also use gas turbine propulsion. China unveiled a 30MW commercial gas turbine manufactured by Harbin Turbine Factory, which is believed to be the QD280. It can be seen that the overall structure of the QD280 is more streamlined than the DA80 era. Not only the gas turbine, the simultaneous installation of three 052D guided missile destroyers in the same year also indicates that other new weapon systems have entered the large-scale production stage, such as the new generation of vertical missile launchers, naval guns, and the Chinese version of the Eagle Strike-18 ship-to-ship missile.

The latest progress in the development of the R0110 heavy-duty gas turbine deserves great attention. The output power of this gas turbine is 114,500kw and the thermal efficiency is 36%. Even if this gas turbine cannot be directly installed on China's domestically produced aircraft carriers, it at least proves that China now has the technical strength to develop heavy-duty gas turbines. In the next stage, it will be easier to develop heavy-duty military gas turbines. R0110 passed the evaluation of the expert group on March 21, 2014.

It must be pointed out here that a new helicopter platform was built at berth No. 3 of Jiangnan Changxing Island Shipyard in May 2014. What is the purpose of this helicopter platform? Is it because more and more national leaders are visiting and inspecting the shipyard? (Zhiyuan/Beifeng)

 
Last edited:
No, no, the situation you are talking about does not exist. The parts of the Chinese Navy's diesel engines are 100% domestically produced, and only the design drawings come from the authorized country. Therefore, unless the Chinese Navy itself does not want to use the licensed engines, no other country can stop China from continuing to produce and use these engines. At the same time, China has domestic diesel engines with sufficient performance to replace these engines. A simple example is Thailand's submarines. When Germany refused to sell engines to Thailand, China immediately proposed domestic engines as a replacement. The reason why the Chinese Navy continues to use these licensed diesel engines is the relevant logistics support system established in the past few decades, not that there is no alternative domestic diesel engine now.
The CHD620 engine has not been used in any submarine, including those in China's fleet, so testing in Thai waters is likely to take some time
 
If China did not have access to the European engines then they can quickly redesign their ships to only use Chinese gas engines.
Switching to new propulsion systems in ships isn't as easy as it sounds. It's a big engineering job. You have to make sure the new engines work with all the other systems on the ship. You also need to get the best performance in all sorts of conditions and meet strict safety and reliability standards. If China tried to redesign their ships to only use Chinese gas engines, it would cost a lot of money and come with a lot of risks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top