Meet the man behind induction of F16 in PAF

Raider 21 said:
The F-16 was already in PAF service when the F-20 was being evaluated. The title of this thread is wrong.

Mickey Abbas.....they couldn't have picked a better pilot from PAF.

Story of F-20 ‘Tigershark’ Trials by PAF Trying it Out – Second To None

secondtonone.com.pk secondtonone.com.pk
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That's not entirely true. F-20 Tigershark was being evaluated during the period in which Jimmy Carter’s Presidential Directive for not selling advance jets to third world was in place, which effectively ruled out F-16A/B sale to Pakistan. To meet the Directive's requirement General Dynamics also developed an inferior F-16/79, which was also evaluated and subsequently rejected by PAF. Once Reagan reversed the Directive PAF received the advance F-16A/B. Pakistan may have continued to half heartedly entertain the idea of also acquiring F-20 thereafter - since license production was being offered - but, to the best of my knowledge, the trials had come to their end prior to the F-16 acquisition. There was no chance for F-20 since the originals requirement was for a strike aircraft and 110 units ex-US Navy A-7 Corsair II were shortlisted by Bhutto government. Zia upped the ante by demanding F-16s but the requirement for strike capability remained, which effectively ruled out F-16/79 and the Tigershark. Both died orphans.
 
F-20 was not a bad aircraft. But it was hard sell given USAF not inducting it. At one point it was maybe dangled to India (Soviet weapons customer) in the late 1980s
 
From Wiki

In the late 1980s, local production of the F-20 was discussed with India. A move was also made in the 1980s to market the aircraft to the Pakistan Air Force with a license production manufacture of the aircraft. It was evaluated by a Pakistani contingent in the United States, with the F-20 being flown by Abbas Mirza, a senior Pakistani Air Force fighter pilot.[74] Of the components of the F-20, the radar would end up being the most successful; Taiwan selected it for the Ching-kuo, South Korea also adopted it for the KAI T-50 Golden Eagle trainer aircraft. As sales prospects were not apparent early on, GE sold their radar division, which was eventually acquired by Lockheed Martin.[75]
 
nahtanbob said:
F-20 was not a bad aircraft. But it was hard sell given USAF not inducting it. At one point it was maybe dangled to India (Soviet weapons customer) in the late 1980s
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Much as in the case of F-5 the USAF was never going to acquire it. The aircraft was built for exports from the start. The project became defunct as soon as Pakistan rejected it & the US government refused to sell the aircraft to Taiwan. India was also never going to buy it. Although, I think it was wrong of Pakistan not to acquire the aircraft with full license production along with the F-16s. It would have provided useful industrial experience. But I doubt Pakistan would have been able to market it to Middle East as Northrop hoped it would be able to.
 
SABRE said:
Much as in the case of F-5 the USAF was never going to acquire it. The aircraft was built for exports from the start. The project became defunct as soon as Pakistan rejected it & the US government refused to sell the aircraft to Taiwan. India was also never going to buy it. Although, I think it was wrong of Pakistan not to acquire the aircraft with full license production along with the F-16s. It would have provided useful industrial experience. But I doubt Pakistan would have been able to market it to Middle East as Northrop hoped it would be able to.
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F-20 specifications does not look bad. It is no F-16. But it is considerable leg up to be able to manufacture such an aircraft back in the 1980s
 
F-16s are pointless now with the Chinese J-10Cs.

We should induct more J-10Cs. American shit comes with conditions.
 
SABRE said:
That's not entirely true. F-20 Tigershark was being evaluated during the period in which Jimmy Carter’s Presidential Directive for not selling advance jets to third world was in place, which effectively ruled out F-16A/B sale to Pakistan. To meet the Directive's requirement General Dynamics also developed an inferior F-16/79, which was also evaluated and subsequently rejected by PAF. Once Reagan reversed the Directive PAF received the advance F-16A/B. Pakistan may have continued to half heartedly entertain the idea of also acquiring F-20 thereafter - since license production was being offered - but, to the best of my knowledge, the trials had come to their end prior to the F-16 acquisition. There was no chance for F-20 since the originals requirement was for a strike aircraft and 110 units ex-US Navy A-7 Corsair II were shortlisted by Bhutto government. Zia upped the ante by demanding F-16s but the requirement for strike capability remained, which effectively ruled out F-16/79 and the Tigershark. Both died orphans.
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The F-16 entered PAF service in 1983. Mickey Abbas flew his first eval sortie on the F-20 in 1984.
 
nahtanbob said:
From Wiki

In the late 1980s, local production of the F-20 was discussed with India. A move was also made in the 1980s to market the aircraft to the Pakistan Air Force with a license production manufacture of the aircraft. It was evaluated by a Pakistani contingent in the United States, with the F-20 being flown by Abbas Mirza, a senior Pakistani Air Force fighter pilot.[74] Of the components of the F-20, the radar would end up being the most successful; Taiwan selected it for the Ching-kuo, South Korea also adopted it for the KAI T-50 Golden Eagle trainer aircraft. As sales prospects were not apparent early on, GE sold their radar division, which was eventually acquired by Lockheed Martin.[75]
Click to expand...
Always take Wiki information with a grain of salt.
 
SecularNationalist said:
So the two highly senior retired officers of PAF are lying in that video?
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Not at all. Likely the video missed out a few details. Both are great people.

From the following link :
https://secondtonone.com.pk/2023/08/21/story-of-f-20-tigershark-trials-by-paf-trying-it-out/

"On September 1, 1984, with an F-5 chase plane, Abbas Mirza flew the first solo mission from Edwards Air Force Base, home to all prototypes and the citadel of all test flights. “I lit the afterburner, got airborne and did a max rate climb at 450 knots and was at 30, 000 feet in less than two minutes. The jet had good acceleration. Then descended to 5, 000 feet for inverted flying and max 9G turns all the time trying to lose the tail aircraft,” he said remembering, what he called was a memorable mission.

On the second one-hour mission, Abbas Mirza tested its handling at slow speeds, formation flying and chasing the lead aircraft."
 
Raider 21 said:
The F-16 entered PAF service in 1983. Mickey Abbas flew his first eval sortie on the F-20 in 1984.
Click to expand...

Reagan approved sale of F-16 in December 1981. PAF, nevertheless, went ahead with the scheduled trials for F-20 in 1982, which lasted till 1984. First batch of F-16s arrived in January 1983. So, the F-20 trials began prior to the arrival of F-16s and conclusive result submitted after the F-16 acquisition. These dates are, perhaps, the reason for confusion. It was also in Northrop's interest that Pakistan continued to conduct trials of the aircraft pass F-16 acquisition since it was designed for exports and third party evaluation would assist in marketing. There were, however, few avionics on F-20 like its radar that out performed those on F-16 and did captured PAF and other countries interests.
 
SABRE said:
Much as in the case of F-5 the USAF was never going to acquire it. The aircraft was built for exports from the start. The project became defunct as soon as Pakistan rejected it & the US government refused to sell the aircraft to Taiwan. India was also never going to buy it. Although, I think it was wrong of Pakistan not to acquire the aircraft with full license production along with the F-16s. It would have provided useful industrial experience. But I doubt Pakistan would have been able to market it to Middle East as Northrop hoped it would be able to.
Click to expand...

Back then I see where the PAF and IAF were coming from. In retrospect I think it would have been a perfect opportunity to build aerospace industrial base for both India and Pakistan
 
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